Changing feed

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you! I’m almost in tears!!! And yes the liver is from our own cow. Would it help if I went with a higher protein layer feed and mixed 2/3-1/3? I’ll do that. I was just trying to do what I thought would be best

We all learn by making mistakes - I have pages and pages of them here, left as warning to others. What you've done isn't fatal, and can be remedied.

Any guess how much calf liver you added??? and thoughts on cooking rice and beans (the two together make a complete protein - part of why I suggested it - and rice is one of the cheapest, lowest fat potential feed ingredients available - while having some nutritional value, courtesy vitamin enrichment) to add to your feed?

Scratch "layer" from your vocabulary. It has a specific purpose which is inapplicable to most backyard flocks.

Yes, alternatively you could mix in a higher protein commercial feed, but its still going to be hard getting the fat down. The lowest fat readily available feed on the market is a number of Nutrena's offerings, at around 2.5%. To get from where you are now to the recommended, youn need to mix about 10 bags of nutrena to your Garden Betty mix... Best you can do is buffer for now and feed something different when this is gone.

 

[bertogomus]

We all learn by making mistakes - I have pages and pages of them here, left as warning to others. What you've done isn't fatal, and can be remedied.

Any guess how much calf liver you added??? and thoughts on cooking rice and beans (the two together make a complete protein - part of why I suggested it - and rice is one of the cheapest, lowest fat potential feed ingredients available - while having some nutritional value, courtesy vitamin enrichment) to add to your feed?

Scratch "layer" from your vocabulary. It has a specific purpose which is inapplicable to most backyard flocks.

Yes, alternatively you could mix in a higher protein commercial feed, but its still going to be hard getting the fat down. The lowest fat readily available feed on the market is a number of Nutrena's offerings, at around 2.5%. To get from where you are now to the recommended, youn need to mix about 10 bags of nutrena to your Garden Betty mix... Best you can do is buffer for now and feed something different when this is gone.

It was 12’ounces for one two feedings. I just bought 16 and 20 % feed to mix. I was actually thinking of beans and rice. I’m a prepper so I have plenty….thanks and I know chickens who get worse food than this and make it. No more overkill..I bought Nutrena, which I had them on and though that was the problem. Their eggs this morning looked good, so I th

 

[U_Stormcrow]

If it helps, I don't actually feed my chickens the way I recommend others feed theirs - but I have different management practices, a different flock than most, different needs, and am willing to take different risks. I also have a different way of monitoring flock health - I did some inspection yesterday in fact.

 

[Brooks_]

I don't actually feed my chickens the way I recommend others feed theirs - but I have different management practices, a different flock than most, different needs, and am willing to take different risks

As such, I wouldn't recommend that you feed in a typical backyard sense.

I also have a different way of monitoring flock health

That's one way of putting it.

 

[bertogomus]

As such, I wouldn't recommend that you feed in a typical backyard sense.

That's one way of putting it.

Explain?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Explain?

I feed 24% protein "game bird grower" from the local mill to my birds for the first 8 weeks of their lives. Low calcium (around 1.3%) and a great amino acid profile. Helps them put on weight and really helps to identify the best, vs the rest. Also gives them a good start on the rest of thier lives (that bettier digestive system).

After that, they free range my acres of weeds. and I feed them a mix of layer (from the local mill) and the game bird, 1:1. It gives me 20% protein, a very good amino acid profile, and a very attractive price point $0.2625/lb currently. Unfortunately, its also relatively high calcium, averaging around 2.6-2.8%, which is hard on Roos long term - though they don't go on the stuff till most of their early/critical growth is done. Since most of my Roos go to freezer camp by 20 weeks, and the breeders at less than 20 months, that's a risk I'm willing to take. Even my girls only go to first molt, on average. SO the timeframes I'm considering are much shorter than the typical "pet" chicken.

I raise my own birds, and I have a culling project going on to build a landrace suited to my climate, grounds, and management style. So I end up with lots of males 50/50 with the females. I cull roughly every other week, get my hands up in the birds, look at abdominal fat, fat around the heart and liver, thighs, keel, etc. Look closely at the liver itself. and have a good sense of how well "put together" the bird is, because I disrobe them by hand - very little knife work. I can feel the stretchiness of the skin, the taughtness of the little lines of connective tissue holding skin to breast, to leg, to wings, etc.

So if you want to check on your chicken's diet as I do, its easy - if you don't mind "sacrificing" a few birds from the flock a few times a month. They go to my table afterwards. But that's a constant process of incubate/cull/repeat with a moderate sized flock (its in my signature). For all sorts of practical reasons, they typical backyard flock owner can't do as I do.

and that's it in a nutshell, with links to longer explanations.

 

[NatJ]

For adding protein to OP's feed mix, turkey starter or gamebird starter might be possible sources. They sometimes run as high as 30% protein.


@U_Stormcrow Are carbohydrates better than fat as an energy source for chickens? Or are the guidelines all based on what makes a mash/crumble/pellet that behaves properly?

Whenever I try to look it up, I find statements like this:
https://en.engormix.com/poultry-industry/articles/fat-in-broiler-nutrition-t33723.htm
"According to Rose (2001) , animal fat or vegetable oils may be used as a source of energy up to a maximum of 6%. Above this level it becomes difficult to maintain pellet quality or to mechanically move the sticky feed when it is not pelleted."

Or even this:
https://lohmann-breeders.com/crude-fat-in-layer-nutrition/
"The maximum amount is defined more by technical reasons than by nutritional ones, as diets of up to 7.5% of crude fat are excellent for layers. This has been proven in different circumstances and climates all around the world."

Since I know you've done more research on the subject than me, I'm hoping you've found something about how much fat in the diet is actually too much for the chickens (rather than too much for the machines.)

 

[U_Stormcrow]

For adding protein to OP's feed mix, turkey starter or gamebird starter might be possible sources. They sometimes run as high as 30% protein.


@U_Stormcrow Are carbohydrates better than fat as an energy source for chickens? Or are the guidelines all based on what makes a mash/crumble/pellet that behaves properly?

Whenever I try to look it up, I find statements like this:
https://en.engormix.com/poultry-industry/articles/fat-in-broiler-nutrition-t33723.htm
"According to Rose (2001) , animal fat or vegetable oils may be used as a source of energy up to a maximum of 6%. Above this level it becomes difficult to maintain pellet quality or to mechanically move the sticky feed when it is not pelleted."

Or even this:
https://lohmann-breeders.com/crude-fat-in-layer-nutrition/
"The maximum amount is defined more by technical reasons than by nutritional ones, as diets of up to 7.5% of crude fat are excellent for layers. This has been proven in different circumstances and climates all around the world."

Since I know you've done more research on the subject than me, I'm hoping you've found something about how much fat in the diet is actually too much for the chickens (rather than too much for the machines.)

Most of what I've seen puts the needs of chickens around 3.5% fat. Waterfowl like ducks about 1% higher. Birds being fattened for table (Cx) get 5-7% in their final weeks as the "optimum" diet. Not a lot of study directly on "how much is too much", but plenty of ancillary evidence from the studies on "optimum" that amounts over their needs are partially wasted, and mostly deposited on their bodies. So I tend to recommend fat levels very close to the studied "optimum" diets. and as its so low, relatively speaking, a 7% fat diet is "twice optimum" for most birds. 11% plus, three or more times optimum...

Fatty liver diease, as you know, often has a bird simply fall over dead - and the people most likely to feed their birds those sorts of diets are also the least likely to take their bird apart and figure otu what killed them. I suspect its an underreported pathology in backyard flocks - but I could be completely wrong.

You saw the little girl I processed yesterday (was it only yesterday?) I scored 3+ on body condition scale [a little overweight]. Yet she's fed just once daily, my feed averages 3.5% fat, plus what she gets free ranging - we had a termite swarming, and a number of grasses are currently coming into seed... and we had similar, slightly fatty (but definitely not obese or morbidly obese butcherings when I deliberately overfed for the two weeks after I put the new seeds down, two months back while hoping the birds wouldn't range as far, and some might actually sprout. Hahaahahahaahahaaa!

 

[Brooks_]

Explain?

His flock numbers are on the higher side. He is also breeding to a specific goal. With that alone, I would not recommend the feeding and management of what would be considered typical of backyard flocks.

 

[bertogomus]

I feed 24% protein "game bird grower" from the local mill to my birds for the first 8 weeks of their lives. Low calcium (around 1.3%) and a great amino acid profile. Helps them put on weight and really helps to identify the best, vs the rest. Also gives them a good start on the rest of thier lives (that bettier digestive system).

After that, they free range my acres of weeds. and I feed them a mix of layer (from the local mill) and the game bird, 1:1. It gives me 20% protein, a very good amino acid profile, and a very attractive price point $0.2625/lb currently. Unfortunately, its also relatively high calcium, averaging around 2.6-2.8%, which is hard on Roos long term - though they don't go on the stuff till most of their early/critical growth is done. Since most of my Roos go to freezer camp by 20 weeks, and the breeders at less than 20 months, that's a risk I'm willing to take. Even my girls only go to first molt, on average. SO the timeframes I'm considering are much shorter than the typical "pet" chicken.

I raise my own birds, and I have a culling project going on to build a landrace suited to my climate, grounds, and management style. So I end up with lots of males 50/50 with the females. I cull roughly every other week, get my hands up in the birds, look at abdominal fat, fat around the heart and liver, thighs, keel, etc. Look closely at the liver itself. and have a good sense of how well "put together" the bird is, because I disrobe them by hand - very little knife work. I can feel the stretchiness of the skin, the taughtness of the little lines of connective tissue holding skin to breast, to leg, to wings, etc.

So if you want to check on your chicken's diet as I do, its easy - if you don't mind "sacrificing" a few birds from the flock a few times a month. They go to my table afterwards. But that's a constant process of incubate/cull/repeat with a moderate sized flock (its in my signature). For all sorts of practical reasons, they typical backyard flock owner can't do as I do.

and that's it in a nutshell, with links to longer explanations.

Well, you’ve def got it goin on!!! I’m nowhere near the details and my heart couldn’t do it. But I do respect your approach. Thank you.