Charlie's Thread

[Artichoke Lover]

Are you bending over him when he snaps? Several of our rescues have had issues with snapping if someone was leaning over them.

@lomine had good advice

I’d also like to add two possible options. 1. A rescue. If you are forced to give him up. A well funded rescue will have people experienced with dogs with fear aggression and other issues and may even have a professional trainer.
2. Medication. If it’s fear aggression doggy anti anxiety meds may help with his training. Or not but it might be worth bringing up with your vet.

If you are willing to put in the work to train him you may be able make a lot of progress with him but it will take a lot of work and you will need to be consistent with him. If you truly don’t feel safe working with him and truly don’t think you can handle the kind of training he needs then you need to put your safety first.

 

[Iluveggers]

I appreciate the gentle reply, everywhere else I’ve turned to has been a slap in the face.

It is obvious you care about your dog. If my second post sounded more harsh, I didn’t mean for it to be. Just cutting right to the chase to try and help. Honesty and giving it to you straight. No time to waste on sweet talking lol.

1.) By correction I really mean if he is performing an undesirable behavior I try to distract him from it if that makes any sort of sense? For example if he’s barking or trying to run at something he’s not supposed to I’ll recall him and offer treats etc

This giving a treat as a distraction, may actually be rewarding for an undesirable behavior. “Oh, I’m barking? I get a treat! Let me do it again!” Distracting can be good, (involving your dog in another activity), but it is not the same as rewarding (giving a treat). When my dogs bark at something, I stand in front of them, make a loud “ssh” noise. If they turn to see it better, I’ll move to the new spot to block them from the object and say “ssh” again. Repeat & repeat until they walk away. I do not stop them from barking at people walking by, because I like them to bark in case an intruder comes. But if I have a friend over and they bark, I will ask the person to wait in the doorway until I perform multiple corrections and they stop. Usually now my dogs will only bark at a friend once until I say “ssh” and then I let them come over to greet the newcomer but not aggressively. It took my puppy about 8 months to learn that. He was never agressive but super exited and would jump on people when they came in. Now he will sit and will wait to be petted/greeted. Again, it did not happen quickly. Me, DH, and my kids all had to do the exact same thing every single time. My son had the toughest time because he “doesn’t want to be mean”, so we keep working with him so he is more assertive and a good leader.

2.) I call myself following through, especially for the past few months. But I will willingly admit, I felt “guilty” for not letting him get away with things as a puppy, which is likely where the issue rooted.

I agree. I still think it’s fixable. You will feel much more guilt if you have to have him put down.

3.) I have had a dog before. She was a Chiweenie from a BYB (I know, rough call) and she was probably 6-7 weeks when I got her. Best. Dog. Ever. She passed in 2018. It took me a while before I got another dog (Charlie).

I’m sorry. Losing a dog is heart wrenching. We have lost 2 the past two winters…(first our 15yo mutt and our 14yo Husky…the mutt was my best girl…)

4.) He gets to run 12 acres and he looooves to run. I don’t think it’s a lack of exercise.

Have you tried any outdoor training? Fetch with a tennis launcher? Follow the leader? We have a very large fenced yard with woods, and my dog will walk with me staying about 10 feet near. He will follow where ever I go. I’ll consistently change direction, so one eye is always on me and he is good about staying there. I have taught him to run out bunnies, squirrels & deer, as they eat (have destroyed in the past) my garden and I prefer not to have them in my backyard. Mental stimulation coupled with exercise is great for dogs and actually tires them out!

5.) He is not aggressive all the time, but he feels uncomfortable receiving affection (pets, etc), so I try to stray away from using that as a reward or even doing it at all.

Has he ever let you give him a belly rub? How do you know he doesn’t like it?


I suggest figuring out a correction noise, like ssh, hey (said sharp and quick). Not NO, because no is too easy to wear out. If your dog is reluctant to go in a crate, you might need to leash him and guide him into the crate, or offer him a treat in the crate. If he goes in willingly, that is a reason to reward.

Maintaining a calm, assertive energy is so important when training. Dogs can sense frustration or fear, and if they sense instability in you they will try to become dominant and lead you. If you feel yourself getting frustrated, scared, or angry when working with him, the best thing to do is leave the room, step outside, go for a ride, and take a break from it until you are calm and ready to practice again. Even take deep breaths out loud gently between commands if you start to feel frustrated.

If you are willing to try, keep posting what you did, what worked, and what didn’t, and I can keep trying with suggestions.

Thank you for giving this dog another chance. Hopefully you can figure it out.

 

[pennyJo1960]

I appreciate the gentle reply, everywhere else I’ve turned to has been a slap in the face.

1.) By correction I really mean if he is performing an undesirable behavior I try to distract him from it if that makes any sort of sense? For example if he’s barking or trying to run at something he’s not supposed to I’ll recall him and offer treats etc
2.) I call myself following through, especially for the past few months. But I will willingly admit, I felt “guilty” for not letting him get away with things as a puppy, which is likely where the issue rooted.
3.) I have had a dog before. She was a Chiweenie from a BYB (I know, rough call) and she was probably 6-7 weeks when I got her. Best. Dog. Ever. She passed in 2018. It took me a while before I got another dog (Charlie).
4.) He gets to run 12 acres and he looooves to run. I don’t think it’s a lack of exercise.
5.) He is not aggressive all the time, but he feels uncomfortable receiving affection (pets, etc), so I try to stray away from using that as a reward or even doing it at all.

Yell ouch to startle as loud as you can

 

[Iluveggers]

Are you sure he is being dominate? This sounds like it may be fear-based aggression. He reacts when he's feeling insecure/nervous/frustrated, yes? Because that would change how you approach the situation.

I agree, I think the crate snap was a fear snap.

No, I do not think it’s a dominance issue. All of his siblings also face nervous reactions. I think it’s a nervousness that’s turned into aggression. I always try to reassure him that it’s okay, but he doesn’t like baby talk, or petting/touching. He prefers treats and then goes right back to the previous behavior.

Baby talk sometimes like “it’s ok, it’s ok” can make a dog think their feeling is what they are supposed to do (s/he’s talking sweet because I’m scared, so I should keep being scared. If he is acting scared, don’t baby him, just remain calm.

Yell ouch to startle as loud as you can

Yes this absolutely works when you get nipped.

 

[HuffleClaw]

It is obvious you care about your dog. If my second post sounded more harsh, I didn’t mean for it to be. Just cutting right to the chase to try and help. Honesty and giving it to you straight. No time to waste on sweet talking lol.


This giving a treat as a distraction, may actually be rewarding for an undesirable behavior. “Oh, I’m barking? I get a treat! Let me do it again!” Distracting can be good, (involving your dog in another activity), but it is not the same as rewarding (giving a treat). When my dogs bark at something, I stand in front of them, make a loud “ssh” noise. If they turn to see it better, I’ll move to the new spot to block them from the object and say “ssh” again. Repeat & repeat until they walk away. I do not stop them from barking at people walking by, because I like them to bark in case an intruder comes. But if I have a friend over and they bark, I will ask the person to wait in the doorway until I perform multiple corrections and they stop. Usually now my dogs will only bark at a friend once until I say “ssh” and then I let them come over to greet the newcomer but not aggressively. It took my puppy about 8 months to learn that. He was never agressive but super exited and would jump on people when they came in. Now he will sit and will wait to be petted/greeted. Again, it did not happen quickly. Me, DH, and my kids all had to do the exact same thing every single time. My son had the toughest time because he “doesn’t want to be mean”, so we keep working with him so he is more assertive and a good leader.


I agree. I still think it’s fixable. You will feel much more guilt if you have to have him put down.


I’m sorry. Losing a dog is heart wrenching. We have lost 2 the past two winters…(first our 15yo mutt and our 14yo Husky…the mutt was my best girl…)


Have you tried any outdoor training? Fetch with a tennis launcher? Follow the leader? We have a very large fenced yard with woods, and my dog will walk with me staying about 10 feet near. He will follow where ever I go. I’ll consistently change direction, so one eye is always on me and he is good about staying there. I have taught him to run out bunnies, squirrels & deer, as they eat (have destroyed in the past) my garden and I prefer not to have them in my backyard. Mental stimulation coupled with exercise is great for dogs and actually tires them out!

Has he ever let you give him a belly rub? How do you know he doesn’t like it?


I suggest figuring out a correction noise, like ssh, hey (said sharp and quick). Not NO, because no is too easy to wear out. If your dog is reluctant to go in a crate, you might need to leash him and guide him into the crate, or offer him a treat in the crate. If he goes in willingly, that is a reason to reward.

Maintaining a calm, assertive energy is so important when training. Dogs can sense frustration or fear, and if they sense instability in you they will try to become dominant and lead you. If you feel yourself getting frustrated, scared, or angry when working with him, the best thing to do is leave the room, step outside, go for a ride, and take a break from it until you are calm and ready to practice again. Even take deep breaths out loud gently between commands if you start to feel frustrated.

If you are willing to try, keep posting what you did, what worked, and what didn’t, and I can keep trying with suggestions.

Thank you for giving this dog another chance. Hopefully you can figure it out.

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply. And your second post wasn’t harsh, it was honest, and I appreciate that. He actually does love belly rubs, but pets on the head or anywhere else really, make him pause, do that warning look and so I’ve stopped trying to really even pet him. I think today was such a bad mental health day for both me and the dog that I overreacted. This past month or two I’ve been working with him trying to build his confidence and trying to introduce enrichment activities. We were doing so well, and he was so engaged. Until today when the crate/biting incident happened. And I probably took it too far, after the nipping, I slammed the crate door and yelled “NO!!!”. I didn’t hit him, but I only added to the trauma issue. Hopefully we can start fresh tomorrow and he can forgive me. I hope I haven’t fully lost his trust. I’ve cried and cried for most of the evening. I’m just so eaten up by guilt. I’ll try being more “fun” when we are outside. He likes fetch (well, he won’t bring the ball back but he loves running after it). I need to start learning to walk away. When I get frustrated, it feels like he does too. I need to work on giving him space when needed and walking away before I get too impatient. At the end of the day, he is just a dog that needs some serious guidance and reassurance. And I feel like that’s all he needed even today, but instead got the door slammed and yelled at. And now, I’m starting to realize for almost 1 year of his life, I’ve been so unfair. Again, I deeply appreciate you taking your time to give advice

 

[HuffleClaw]

Currently I am quarantined due to exposure, so I have a little time to get to the start of it. How should I go about making tomorrow a better day for both me and my dog? He isn’t aggressive all the time, and also has not snapped until today for several weeks. Do I act normal? Should I just spend extra time outside playing all his favorites tomorrow?

 

[Iluveggers]

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply. And your second post wasn’t harsh, it was honest, and I appreciate that. He actually does love belly rubs, but pets on the head or anywhere else really, make him pause, do that warning look and so I’ve stopped trying to really even pet him. I think today was such a bad mental health day for both me and the dog that I overreacted. This past month or two I’ve been working with him trying to build his confidence and trying to introduce enrichment activities. We were doing so well, and he was so engaged. Until today when the crate/biting incident happened. And I probably took it too far, after the nipping, I slammed the crate door and yelled “NO!!!”. I didn’t hit him, but I only added to the trauma issue. Hopefully we can start fresh tomorrow and he can forgive me. I hope I haven’t fully lost his trust. I’ve cried and cried for most of the evening. I’m just so eaten up by guilt. I’ll try being more “fun” when we are outside. He likes fetch (well, he won’t bring the ball back but he loves running after it). I need to start learning to walk away. When I get frustrated, it feels like he does too. I need to work on giving him space when needed and walking away before I get too impatient. At the end of the day, he is just a dog that needs some serious guidance and reassurance. And I feel like that’s all he needed even today, but instead got the door slammed and yelled at. And now, I’m starting to realize for almost 1 year of his life, I’ve been so unfair. Again, I deeply appreciate you taking your time to give advice

The best thing about dogs is that they don’t hold grudges. I’m sure everyone on here has lost their temper with someone or something. Your dog still loves you. It’s so great that you can look back and reflect on the day to see what led up to everything. Journaling each day might be a great strategy. You can write down your feeling and action, and how the dog reacted. Start paying attention to the events when he is acting appropriate and try to avoid things that cause inappropriate behaviors. You can even leave little sticky notes like “calm movement, even firm tone, reward for good behavior” to help you stay focused.

Currently I am quarantined due to exposure, so I have a little time to get to the start of it. How should I go about making tomorrow a better day for both me and my dog? He isn’t aggressive all the time, and also has not snapped until today for several weeks. Do I act normal? Should I just spend extra time outside playing all his favorites tomorrow?

Pretend today didn’t happen. Your dog won’t think about it again. Take him out and burn some energy with him. Work on praising and belly rubs when he is being a good boy. Be as stable and consistent as possible. Dogs thrive on routine, and if yours is nervous, routine is even more important.

I also like to give my dogs bones/rawhides to chew on. It helps with energy, even nervous energy. If he is inside for a bit and you have something important to do, a special bone can be a great reward and distraction. We keep deer bones and cow bones from our processor and take them out as needed and the dogs LOVE them.

 

[lomine]

None of us are perfect. We are humans and react emotionally sometimes. It was a mistake. Let go of the guilt, for this instance and the past year. It won't help him or you. Put your energy into doing better next time instead of dwelling on the past. He won't be thinking about it.

Try to stay positive and confident around him. If you are anxious, he'll feel it. Try to learn his signals. Know when he's getting to his tipping point and back off before he does. Sounds like you already do this with petting. It isn't going to be an easy process forward and there will be setbacks. All your responses suggest that you are ready to try and right now that's what matters. Let tomorrow be a restart for you.

 

[HuffleClaw]

The best thing about dogs is that they don’t hold grudges. I’m sure everyone on here has lost their temper with someone or something. Your dog still loves you. It’s so great that you can look back and reflect on the day to see what led up to everything. Journaling each day might be a great strategy. You can write down your feeling and action, and how the dog reacted. Start paying attention to the events when he is acting appropriate and try to avoid things that cause inappropriate behaviors. You can even leave little sticky notes like “calm movement, even firm tone, reward for good behavior” to help you stay focused.

Pretend today didn’t happen. Your dog won’t think about it again. Take him out and burn some energy with him. Work on praising and belly rubs when he is being a good boy. Be as stable and consistent as possible. Dogs thrive on routine, and if yours is nervous, routine is even more important.

I also like to give my dogs bones/rawhides to chew on. It helps with energy, even nervous energy. If he is inside for a bit and you have something important to do, a special bone can be a great reward and distraction. We keep deer bones and cow bones from our processor and take them out as needed and the dogs LOVE them.

I will tip my hat to you, rescuing dogs is not for the weak! I will invest in purchasing chews (for a 25lb dog, he chews everything so fast lol) that will last a while to keep him busy. I just popped a metal container with peanut butter, a farm fresh egg (and parts of the shell), blueberries, pumpkin seeds, and a chicken foot into the freezer for tomorrow. Hopefully it will occupy him and make him use his brain

I’ll start documenting our days and things that made it a little easier. I just need to take it slow.

 

[MGG]

I'm so sorry you're having problems with him! He definitely needs some correction.
By giving him treats to "distract" him, you are just rewarding the behavior. He's learned that when he misbehaves he can get treats.
Don't give him any more treats when he does that sort of thing. He has you trained to give him what he wants when he misbehaves.
I would highly suggest a shock collar. I have never used one before just recently but it has fixed some long time problems in literally one session. If you just nick them with it and firmly give the command again you'll get instant results. For example, when he wouldn't go in his crate, you could have commanded "kennel" again very firmly while nicking him at the same time. If he still doesn't go in you can turn the power up a bit.
I think it would help fix a lot of his issues, to be completely honest.
I know some people will say it's cruel but it is not if you do it correctly.
It's certainly a much better option than him having to be put down.
I was amazed at just how well it worked. I've fully trained my dog, helped train our older dog, and re-trained a friend's dog. He was in the same situation as you. He decided to just re-home his dog because he was having so many problems with him. I worked with him every day for three weeks and his owner was so happy. I told him how to fix the issues the dog was having with him specifically too.
He decided to keep the dog since he was so much better and he's such a sweet boy now.
I hope either way that you can re-train him and don't have to give him up. He's so lucky you took him in in the first place. I wish you the best of luck with him and let us know how it goes!