Charlotte County Florida ordinances

[Margy1]

This may be a silly question, but does Residential estates, include residential multi-family?

 

[EightIsEnough]

Good question! - I know that Residential Estates (RE) has acreage associated with it. For instance, I am in RE-5 zone because I am on 5 acres, there is RE-1, RE-2, RE-3 and RE-4 as well. I don't know about multi-family. Will ask Jie on Monday.

 

[Margy1]

okay thank you, I plan on going either way, hopefully it has to do with RMF too though!

 

[suebbrown50]

Response to Margy1 and everyone in general.

RMF means Residential Multi - Family. It includes apartments, townhouses, condos, duplexes, patio homes, etc.

The only place in the entire Municipal Code that authorizes chickens is for property zoned Agricultural (AG).
That would not include RE, RSF, or RMF.

Code Enforcement is interpreting the law that unless it is specified that you CAN have chickens (zoned AG) then you cannot have chickens.

If you read back a few pages on this thread you will see multiple entries discussing some of our current options, and a copy of a letter sent to my commissioner and all the commissioners.

I'd like to encourage EVERYONE interested in this issue to attend the meeting tomorrow. And whether you can attend or not I strongly encourage everyone to write to their specific county commissioner to state their opinion so all five commissioners are aware of how many people want chickens authorized in Residential districts.

For a map to identify which commissioner is from your district check out this link:

http://www.charlottecountyfl.gov/dept/commissionoffice/Documents/CommissionDistricts.pdf

The email addresses for all of the commissioners are as follows:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

I fear that the current code change under consideration would only add RE - Residential Estates to the list of authorized properties to have chickens. We need them to add more types of property zones to the amendments.

As for everyone who thinks they will ignore the codes and get chickens anyway . . . it only takes one complaint for Code Enforcement to arrive at your door. Trust me when I tell you it is heartbreaking to get rid of your hens after several months. I put a lot of time and money into my hens and had to get rid of them before they began to lay. I was lucky to find a wonderful woman who bought my girls to add to her flock.

Please write to all the commissioners . . . . our only other alternative would be to collect 12,000 signatures throughout the county to force the issue to a ballot in an election. I'd be willing to try that, but it won't be easy and it won't happen overnight. Our best bet is to get the commissioners to change the code in the near future.

 

[EightIsEnough]

After attending the Charlotte County Zoning and Planning Board meeting today, I agree with Sue (suebrown50), it's petitions/signatures/campaign and getting the commissioners to change the code in the near future.

Per the proposed update, chickens will be allowed in RE (residential estates) zones, when and if this proposal (Phase 1) is passed by the Zoning and Planning Board (in October sometime) then given to a vote by the County Commissioners (supposedly November 2014).

I was grateful to the planning community, Jie Shao in particular, for the work they put into the proposal and the uphill battle they had with making these changes/proposals. There were 6 independent lawyers representing other zoning areas, who sat on round table discussions with the Board and planning members, for everything from commercial use properties, to in-law living spaces, to whether you could have 2 kitchens on our property, etc.all to bring this Phase 1 proposal to life. I almost wish we had a chicken lawyer on our side - lol

The Zoning and Planning Board consisted of:
Chair Person - Paula Hess
Assistant County Attorney - Joshua Moye
Member Jerry Olivo
Member Stephen Vieira
Member Michael Gravesen
Member Paul Bigness
Member Kenneth Chandler

Board members made their recommendations and then the public was able to speak on each area of the agenda. Updates were shared at this meeting and will be incorporated into the Phase 1 proposal.

Margaret (margy1) and I attended and met Jie Shao. Jie reiterated that no other zones were allowing chickens at this time (short of AG), that it is a hot topic and a much bigger issue than what was purposed for this time. The Zoning and Planning Community are trying to make changes to the existing Zoning document, which are long overdue. They felt the issue of chickens in urban zones/other zones would be best discussed by both sides, since they say there as as many people "for" chickens, as against. We also approached one of the lawyers in attendance (for another zoning issue) and she parroted back what Jie said, that it is hot topic and more discussion about the issue needs to be put into place. But no discussion as to how and when.

No chickens in any other zones were mentioned at the meeting. I did get up and speak to the board at the podium encouraging them to pass the new proposal and to include chickens in other zones. That went on deaf ears, with comments from Chairperson Paula Hess like, "Do you have roosters, and do they wake you in the morning," totally ignorant and irrelevant. I commented, "No but my neighbor's dog's barking wakes me up." And, "Do you eat your chickens?' and I said, "No, they are my pets. I don't eat my dog." Then there was the under the breath comment, "I wouldn't want to have chickens on a 75ft lot." And don't get me started about her comments about horses/stables on one acre lots, and how she kept saying, "I can't understand her," when Jie was speaking, because of an accent, I thought was insensitive. Anyway...

Margaret may have her own interpretation of the meeting, all I know is I just got madder and madder on the ride home, thinking of things I should have said, etc, and thinking minds were already made up before we even got to the meeting. All we can do is move forward and continue to put chickens in the fore front of theses meetings and with the Commissioners.

There was an opening, I thought when the Board asked Jie and her team to define "pet" which appeared in another area of the proposal. The Board felt there should be a "limit" or "number" given to the amount of "pets" one could have in a residential area. And they wanted a "definition" of PET. This goes back to comment in June/July from raceban2003 who talked about working on the definition of domestic animals. Not sure if this is a way to get around the zoning for now - if chickens were defined as pets.

I am up for the challenge and will rally with others to get things moving toward other zones/all zones be chicken zones.

 

[Margy1]

I believe you said it perfectly Michelle. Unfortunately chickens were the very last thing on their minds. I was getting upset too at how she was acting towards Jai, yes her accent was a little difficult to understand, but I understood almost everything she said. When Paula said that pets needed to be better defined, because some people would look at a horse as a pet, OF COURSE THEY WOULD, unless you are raising horses for racing or something, a horse IS your pet! How are they planning on defining a pet? A dog or a cat? I had rats in the 4th grade, I saw those as my pets, while my aunt saw them as pests that I kept in a cage and fed. No one is going to have the same definition as to what a pet is. I could not believe the way she spoke to you when you were up speaking, asking you if you were going to eat your chickens (yes i do know that some people do raise their chickens specifically for meat), you clearly stated your chickens were your pet, and I loved your response that you wouldn’t eat your dog.

I agree that now our best bet is going to be to get a petition going, I think we all need to get together as a group and figure out how to get it started, and where to set up to get our signatures. I am willing to help in any way I can!

 

[EightIsEnough]

Hi all,

Wanting to share that I spoke to Jie Shao on Thursday regarding some of the Zoning and Planning Board members comments from Monday 9/8/2014. I was concerned over:

1 - Board wanted to define pets and the number of pets a resident could have.
2 - Board wanted to restrict those on RE-1 (residential estates one acre) properties who have been keeping horses on that location, siting the acreage was too small to support a horse.

Jie confirmed the following:
1 - she spoke with Animal Control agents who confirmed NOT to define "pets" in the new zoning proposal (leave as is), not to narrow the definition of "pets". Per Animal Control this is not recommended. I found this encouraging as it may open doors to chickens as pets. This goes back to a comment made in this forum (June/July) about Animal Control defining what is a pet and how that can be used helpful when it comes to housing chickens in urban areas.
2 - she spoke with Agricultural Representatives who confirmed that they recommend keeping horse(s) on RE-1 properties.

She also shared that the final presentation of Phase 1 of the Zoning and Planning Board proposal to the Charlotte County Commissioners is October 28, 2014 at 2:00pm, at the County Building on Murdoch, in Port Charlotte. And the Charlotte County Commissioners vote on this proposal will be November 25, 2014 at 2:00pm, same location.

 

[EightIsEnough]

Sorry been quiet, had some health issues to deal with, so not much posting. I need to connect with those who are interested in continuing the push for chickens in urban areas and come up with a strategy as to what/where do we go from here. I hope the commissioners continue to receive e-mails/letters for urban chickens in Charlotte County - keep the issue in the forefront.

 

[Margy1]

Hope everything is okay with you Michelle, I have been waiting to hear from people to as to what we want to do next. Keep me posted, i'll do whatever I can to help!

 

[ADSCHICKENS]

Hi Charlotte County. I also live in Charlotte County and was given a warning about our chickens, it was an annonimos complaint. I spoke with the county attorney and he said chickens are allowed in an agricultural area but nowhere in the ordinance does it say they aren't allowed in a residential area. When I asked about that he said that because it isn't in the code then they aren't allowed. Then I asked why Charlotte County Animal Control says chickens are considered a domestic animal so then cats and dogs should be banned and he said those are pets and chickens aren't. He said I made several good points but I have to wait until I get an actual violation to plead my case. None of the County Commissioners want to answer any questions.