Chick Starter: Medicated or Not?

[chrissyr]

Sorry again, I thought I posted this on "Chicks dying" post

 

[ellie32526]

Okay guys, getting pretty close to having the coop ready for the brooder box and then it's time to go get the chicks and bring them home.

So after studying all the construction methods, coop designs and breaking my back building the coop, I'm on to another topic which is the care and feeding of my chicks.

Looking around I wanted to get the most up to date info possible. So which should it be, medicated or non-medicated chick starter?

And, since they will be outside in the cold coop but under a heat lamp, is there anything else I should get other than a feed trough, a chick waterer, a few little roosts, newspaper for the floor, a thermometer and the feed?

Treats, grit, scratch, toys?

Thanks for all your help. This is a real kick.


P.S. Don't forget to check out the latest video on my page, to see the coop getting done.

I'm going to use non-medicated because I chose to have my chicks vaccinated by the hatchery. If I use medicated they say it nullifies the vaccinations. Otherwise I would use medicated. Coccidiosis is nasty and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I would not use newspaper. I have heard it gets slippery when wet and is difficult for the chicks to stand some will get splayed leg. The treats grit scratch and toys are a bit premature. I wouldn't do any of that until they are fully feathered. Basically, Chicks need warmth, water and feed.

 

[ellie32526]

I'm in the medicated chick starter camp. The important thing about the medication is that it is not an antibiotic, but an anti-cocci agent. It helps the chick develop resistance to cocci, which is in the soil nearly everywhere. It would be a waste if you only fed medicated feed whilst the chicks are in the brooder and stopped feeding it to them when they "hit the ground," so to speak.

I made that mistake just once, keeping chicks in my ginormous brooder for ten instead of eight weeks. (Winter time, nasty, rainy, they were better off in the brooder.) But I changed them to grower right on schedule at 8 weeks. They hit the ground without ever having encountered cocci during their "build resistance" period and by then they were off the medicated feed. I lost more than 10 birds.

Usually I introduce chicks to the world outside in a separation grow-out coop and pen of their own, with medicated feed until they are at least 8 weeks old, ofttimes as much as 12 weeks.

Not only is cocci in the soil, it is also in the gut of every fowl - so wild birds flying over head can poop over your run and your hens step in it and transport it everywhere they step. Those wild birds happen to poop in your waterer and all your hens can get infected from drinking the water. I found out the hard way - purchased some pups from a bad lady who ran a puppy mill and the pups nearly died because of coccidiosis. I learned alot about coccidiosis trying to keep those pups alive. They pulled through with the help of my vet and lots of meds, but the Humane Society would not take action against the puppy mill.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Whether or not to use medicated feed is a personal choice. Maybe a little information about it will help you make an informed choice of whether to use it at all or even more important, when to use it.

There are several different strains of Cocci out there, some stronger and more dangerous than others. If you get your chicks vaccinated, they are not vaccinated for every strain. So just because they are vaccinated does not mean they will never become infected by some strain of Cocci. You still need to know the symptoms and not get lulled into complacency thinking they can never catch it.

The protozoa that causes Cocci lives in their gut and will live and reproduce in wet manure. They can develop immunity to one strain of Cocci but that does not give them immunity to all strains. They can develop that immunity easier when they are really young. That does not mean they cannot get that immunity later in life, just that it is a bit easier when they are young.

Having some Cocci in their guts is not a big deal. The problem comes in when the numbers get out of hand and they don’t have immunity to it. A typical way the numbers get out of hand is that they eat wet manure with large numbers of cocci in it. If you keep your brooder, coop, or run dry while they are developing that immunity Cocci is seldom a problem. Some strains are stronger than others. That’s why I said seldom a problem. With a stronger strain it doesn’t take as much to cause a problem.

The vast majority of medicated chick feed contains Amprolium as the active ingredient. There are a few feeds out there that contain other things but those are intended for feeding broilers, not chicks that will become a laying flock. Read the label to be sure what you have but I’ll assume it is only Amprolium as the active medical ingredient.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. Its action is to reduce how much the Cocci reproduces. In the dosage in medicated feed it does not stop all reproduction. It still allows enough to reproduce so they can get the immunity they need. It is still possible they can get really sick or die from Cocci while on medicated feed, especially if the brooder is wet, but it greatly reduces the odds of them getting sick.

Amprolium in the dosage in medicated feed is not intended as a treatment for an active case of Cocci. You can get medicine to treat an active case that is Amprolium but the dosage is much greater.

Feed medicated with Amprolium does not hurt the chicks whether Cocci is present or not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed. It is not an antibiotic. If the Cocci is not present there is no benefit to feeding medicated feed but there is no harm either. That’s what Gryeyes is talking about. If you feed medicated feed to them while they are in the brooder but stop when they hit the ground and are exposed to Cocci for the first time, it has done absolutely no good. The only time it will actually do some good is the first two or three weeks after they have been exposed to Cocci while they are developing immunity. It won’t hurt them at other times, it just won’t help.

If you have a history of a problem with Cocci, it certainly makes sense to feed medicated feed. Personally I choose not to. It’s not that I’m right and everyone else is wrong. It’s personal preference and my history says I don’t need to.

When a broody takes her chicks off the nest, one of the first things she does is take them where they can eat dirt and poop from the other chickens. That does a few things. It gets grit into their system so they can grind up whatever they eat. It gets any probiotics the other chickens have into their system. And it introduces Cocci or anything else the other chickens have or is in the ground so they can start working on their immunity.

When I have chicks in the brooder I try to mimic that a bit. I take dirt from the run and give it to the chicks when they are a couple of days old. They get grit, probiotics, and can start working on their immunities. I can observe them better in the brooder that when they are on the ground. I can control the conditions in the brooder better than I can when they are on the ground. They are going to face all this when they hit the ground. I prefer them to face this in the brooder where I have better control.

When a broody takes them out, they don’t eat enough grit to kill themselves. If you are worried about that, don’t put that much grit in the brooder. You’re in control of what goes in the brooder.

A broody does not wait a few days to start them eating and drinking either. They can go two or three days without food or water and they may not eat a lot the first day or two, but that does not mean they need to go without food or water. I don’t know of any benefit from withholding food or water.

I’ve found a system that works for me. It won’t work for everyone else. I know this is long. Hopefully someone will get something out of this that helps them come up with a system that works for them.


Editted to add

If your chicks were vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccination.

 

[ellie32526]

Whether or not to use medicated feed is a personal choice. Maybe a little information about it will help you make an informed choice of whether to use it at all or even more important, when to use it.

There are several different strains of Cocci out there, some stronger and more dangerous than others. If you get your chicks vaccinated, they are not vaccinated for every strain. So just because they are vaccinated does not mean they will never become infected by some strain of Cocci. You still need to know the symptoms and not get lulled into complacency thinking they can never catch it.

The protozoa that causes Cocci lives in their gut and will live and reproduce in wet manure. They can develop immunity to one strain of Cocci but that does not give them immunity to all strains. They can develop that immunity easier when they are really young. That does not mean they cannot get that immunity later in life, just that it is a bit easier when they are young.

Having some Cocci in their guts is not a big deal. The problem comes in when the numbers get out of hand and they don’t have immunity to it. A typical way the numbers get out of hand is that they eat wet manure with large numbers of cocci in it. If you keep your brooder, coop, or run dry while they are developing that immunity Cocci is seldom a problem. Some strains are stronger than others. That’s why I said seldom a problem. With a stronger strain it doesn’t take as much to cause a problem.

The vast majority of medicated chick feed contains Amprolium as the active ingredient. There are a few feeds out there that contain other things but those are intended for feeding broilers, not chicks that will become a laying flock. Read the label to be sure what you have but I’ll assume it is only Amprolium as the active medical ingredient.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. Its action is to reduce how much the Cocci reproduces. In the dosage in medicated feed it does not stop all reproduction. It still allows enough to reproduce so they can get the immunity they need. It is still possible they can get really sick or die from Cocci while on medicated feed, especially if the brooder is wet, but it greatly reduces the odds of them getting sick.

Amprolium in the dosage in medicated feed is not intended as a treatment for an active case of Cocci. You can get medicine to treat an active case that is Amprolium but the dosage is much greater.

Feed medicated with Amprolium does not hurt the chicks whether Cocci is present or not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed. It is not an antibiotic. If the Cocci is not present there is no benefit to feeding medicated feed but there is no harm either. That’s what Gryeyes is talking about. If you feed medicated feed to them while they are in the brooder but stop when they hit the ground and are exposed to Cocci for the first time, it has done absolutely no good. The only time it will actually do some good is the first two or three weeks after they have been exposed to Cocci while they are developing immunity. It won’t hurt them at other times, it just won’t help.

If you have a history of a problem with Cocci, it certainly makes sense to feed medicated feed. Personally I choose not to. It’s not that I’m right and everyone else is wrong. It’s personal preference and my history says I don’t need to.

When a broody takes her chicks off the nest, one of the first things she does is take them where they can eat dirt and poop from the other chickens. That does a few things. It gets grit into their system so they can grind up whatever they eat. It gets any probiotics the other chickens have into their system. And it introduces Cocci or anything else the other chickens have or is in the ground so they can start working on their immunity.

When I have chicks in the brooder I try to mimic that a bit. I take dirt from the run and give it to the chicks when they are a couple of days old. They get grit, probiotics, and can start working on their immunities. I can observe them better in the brooder that when they are on the ground. I can control the conditions in the brooder better than I can when they are on the ground. They are going to face all this when they hit the ground. I prefer them to face this in the brooder where I have better control.

When a broody takes them out, they don’t eat enough grit to kill themselves. If you are worried about that, don’t put that much grit in the brooder. You’re in control of what goes in the brooder.

A broody does not wait a few days to start them eating and drinking either. They can go two or three days without food or water and they may not eat a lot the first day or two, but that does not mean they need to go without food or water. I don’t know of any benefit from withholding food or water.

I’ve found a system that works for me. It won’t work for everyone else. I know this is long. Hopefully someone will get something out of this that helps them come up with a system that works for them.


Editted to add

If your chicks were vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccination.

Well said Ridgerunner. Thanks for your condor.

 

[ellie32526]

candor! typo.

 

[realsis]

Hi there.i do use medicated feed starter and medicated grower. I am very fearful of cocci. Thank God so far my chicks are healthy and growing well! They are going on seven weeks old now
Its a personal choice and up to you. If they had the vaccine you can NOT use it. Other wise i personally think its a good ifea. As clean as we try to be sometimes someone poops in there water and i don't find it until later.even though i check on them very often. I think the medicated food helps but its up to you.

 

[stake]

Hi: I am a newbie so I am repeating the suggestions from my local outlet where I purchaced x6 chicks.....feed them at least 1 5lb bag of medicated...the primary medication is for their undeveloped digestive system then you can move to what ever you wish...Purina was the brand and it has grit included. The non-medicated has grit too. Later, I'll move them to organic feed...my two cents(sort of)

 

[Ridgerunner]

No, it does not contain grit.

This is the answer I got from Purina when I e-mailed them to ask if their chick feed contained grit. You can go to Purina’s site and send an e-mail yourself if you don’t believe me. The lady’s name that responded was Dawn.

Purina chicken feed does not contain grit. That is a dangerous misconception. They do not need grit if all they eat is chicken feed. They need grit if they eat about anything else. Otherwise they cannot grind it up in their gizzard and they could have serious problems.

I have not asked any other feed company if their feed contains grit. You can contact your feed company and ask them if you wish. Or maybe you can find it on the label. But I’m not assuming any feed has grit unless I see evidence that it does.

 

[vickschicks2014]

I have raised chickens my whole life, and I am a graduate of UCONN's Animal Science program. Medicated or not is your decision. With that noted, if chicks didn't get a good passive immunity against coccidiosis as well as numerous other diseases from their mother, then I would use it. It can't hurt, and could possibly save your flock. If one gets sick they all will unless you catch it and cull, but it is usually to late by the time we notice it. Grit is used in the process of digestion. Yes many do fine "without it", but we don't see they get it from dirt, sand etc. whether outside or in. So even if we think they aren't getting it they are Even the birds in the wild use it. If you visit any poultry farm you will see grit. Toys are your decision, keep in mind a bored chick, just like us, will find things to do whether bad or good. Hope this helps! Good luck!