Chicken dying/started with hurt leg

[mercurysmith]

I have what I think is a white rock who, about 10 days ago, developed a bad leg that she kept tucked under her while standing. I isolated her, but she's one of only two chickens and I thought they missed each other so I returned her to the tractor. We've had them both since April when they were about 12 weeks old with no traffic from other birds and we don't "visit" other birds. I'm pretty sure they were vaccinated for Marek's. I think she's about 30 weeks old and just started laying about 3 weeks ago. We maybe got 8 eggs during that time. Her buddy still isn't laying.

The first day, we inspected the leg and found no injury or sign of infection to the foot. We cleaned it felt up and down the leg but she did not object to any of it, like there was no sore spot. Bodily, she feels normal to us. She's gotten no better with the leg during this time. I thought that if it were injured, it would show some signs of improvement within a week. It's not happening. She's laying down almost all the time at this point. Today, her face looks prematurely aged and her breathing is altered (she points her beak upward to get a breath). I was thinking over the past two or three days to cull her, but as it looks like she'll pass in a day or two, I won't. She doesn't look like she's suffering, but I would do it if it seemed like she were. She's calm, sleeps a lot. The second hen stays near her constantly. I didn't see it, but my son said that the second hen put grass in sick chicken's mouth. At this point, I'm not even interested in pulling her from the tractor because the second hen provides more comfort than I could.

I'm not going to do anything but watch and wait. But curiosity has me interested in finding out what the problem is. I had been planning to get more birds, so I'm thinking it will be worth it to take this girl, once she passes/if she passes to the vet lab in College Station TX (an hour's drive). If this sounds like a story you've heard before and already know the ending, please share. I do want to know if it's safe to have new chickens in the next month or so.

 

[leadwolf1]

I'm not going to say that I've heard that particular story before but, I've heard alot similar to that one. I agree that you should have a necropsy done. Do not get any other chickens until you have the results back. That will tell you if you need to take special precautions in the future. In the meantime, start your girl on this vitamin protocol. It may not help but, it won't hurt either...

,5 mls poly vi sol, without iron, daily
400 ius vitamin E twice daily

Just because a chicken has been vaccinated for Marek's doesn't prevent the chicken from getting Marek's. It just prevents the bird from getting the tumors associated with the disease. It is also only 90% effective..so, there is still the chance. The vitamin therapy will rule out a vitamin deficiency.

Is she still laying?

 

[mercurysmith]

Thank you for the vitamin suggestion. No, she's not laying anymore. She was pretty much every other day up until the day of the hurt leg. She would have been due that day, I think. There's no weird or unusual poop anywhere, btw.

I need to learn about Marek's. Not saying that's what I think this is. But, you already told me something I didn't know. I would've thought vaccination would fully prevent the illness, or at least better than 90%.

So, ok, good plan, vitamins, comfort and some investigation if she doesn't make it.

 

[leadwolf1]

If she doesn't make it, have a necropsy performed. Contact your local government extension office. They should be able to direct you to a state lab that will do them for little/no cost.

If you didn't purchase as fertilized eggs and hatched yourself or, as day olds from a hatchery, there is a chance that they came to you having already been exposed to Marek's or, some other disease. The only safe way to purchase chicks is from a hatchery or as hatching eggs. Unfortunately, there are some out there that will knowingly or, through ignorance, sell birds that are infected with some known chicken illness.

I hope the vitamins work.

 

[mercurysmith]

The sick chicken is definitely dying but slowly. She looks particularly bad today. I spoke with someone from the vet lab and learned they aren't doing the necropsies in the lab close to me anytime soon (the nearest place then would be several hours away). So, here's an email to a family member summarizing the conversation with the doc. It was very helpful, and for someone who's just not sure and finds that online reading possibly makes you more confused, I recommend you call your local college vet lab and see if you can speak with an expert. The two I spoke to today were incredibly generous with their time on the phone. I'm very grateful.
"I spoke on the phone today with a doctor out at the Gonzales location of the Texas A&M Vet Medicine Lab. So cool that they are willing to get on the phone and talk. It was really good. I'll see if I can remember everything he said.
He is almost certain she is dying from Marek's. I was careful when describing the symptoms to be impartial and not just say the things that sounded like Marek's. He said any other causes are a very distant second, third and fourth and he didn't tell me what those were. He said confirmation would be by necrospy or blood sample, but they don't or can't do the necrospy in College Station anytime soon, so after talking, I told him I was satisfied with this diagnosis. What to do= he says that vaccinated birds are the way to go. I can have vaccinated new birds and keep the other non-sick bird. He was not bothered by that and I rephrased it to ask him twice. He said if we could afford to raise new birds somewhere else on the property, that would be best. "Reduce the viral load." "It's a numbers game." I told him that I thought the birds were vaccinated. Having gone to the website for the ranch where I got them, I see that she gets her chickens prevaccinated. He said it was not that unusual to still lose birds to Marek's because of a standard vaccine failure rate. So Thea is probably just an unlucky bird. I think I need to go out today and do her in. She looks horrible laying on her side with her white feathers all dirty. I was hoping she'd go quietly on her own. The other chicken stays by her all the time but LOOKS AT ME and I feel like she's saying "well??"
I'm off today and tomorrow and probably will do it today. Fortunately, she doesn't look like she's in distress. Have I mentioned that I did hospice nursing before? It taught me patience, but still. I work 12 hour shifts and if she makes it to the weekend and then dies, I won't be here.
Thanks again for your help. Oh, by the way, we did try the vitamins, but I guess this time, they were not going to make the difference.
Just the same, thank you leadwolf1.

Veena

 

[leadwolf1]

I would never take a diagnosis of Marek's without confirmation. With Marek's, you will have to keep a closed flock from now on. You will have to practice way more procedures then those told to you by that vet. Simply bringing in vaccinated birds will not work at all. I am talking with way too much experience here. I've lost 40+ birds to Marek's in little over a year. At this point, the only way to safely bring in birds is to hatch chicks from my own eggs. They are hatched with immunity to the specific strain of Marek's that you would be dealing with. Marek's is mutating. Not all strains are covered by the vaccine. I have lost 6 out of 9 vaccinated pullets that I purchased in the Spring. Out of 17 chicks hatched in Dec from my own eggs, I have only lost 1.

When bringing chicks into a Marek's environment, they must be isolated for 6 weeks to 6 months. This gives the vaccine time to work. However, the vaccine is only 90% effective and depending on the strain of virus, it doesn't even come close to that. I have to stress that you need to have that diagnosis through necropsy. The report in hand. Marek's is too devastating to accept a second hand diagnosis. I have also never seen a Marek's chicken stand with a leg tucked under, they are usually stuck out, stick straight..either forward or behind the bird.

When I first got my flock diagnosed through necropsy I was told that if I kept stress to a minimum I would never lose another bird. I've spent thousands insuring that my flock remains stress free. That was 40+ birds ago and I'm still losing them. I'm not trying to be pushy or say that the vet you spoke to was wrong...I just would never accept a Marek's diagnosis without confirmation. You will now need to shower, change clothes, shoes etc, just to go to the feed store. The virus is spread through dander. It is everywhere. You can infect chicks in the feedstore just by your presence. I do not go anywhere near chickens without a shower and a full set of clear attire. Same with my kids. They can't do 4H as dreamed, I can't show or breed for sale.

 

[Folly's place]

couldn.t agree more--- get a diagnosis! A post-mortem exam is way cheaper than the heartache of a total flock loss, and if you have a firm diagnosis, you can make a plan. good luck, Mary