⠀ Chicken feed

[dlampkin]

They aren't losing weight... The leghorns are a little smaller than the Reds, but they all look healthy and don't seem to be loosing weight. I'm going to start letting them free range on the weekends, I just have to get some bushes and such blocked off first...

 

[junebuggena]

Don't block off bushes. They need them for cover.

 

[dlampkin]

Right... They have plenty of trees and bushes for cover... I have to block off my blueberry, raspberry and blackberry bushes... I let them out to free range once and those were the first things they went after... I had to start rounding them up after 10 minutes... Thank you for the reply!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

You've gotten some excellent advice so far and I have some thoughts to share and points to clarify.
If you mentioned the birds' ages, I missed it.
Are your birds laying yet? If so, how is the production? What is their age and how many eggs are you getting on average from the 30 layers?
I'm not really surprised by what you are reporting.
Reds (bulk of your flock) need lots more feed than leghorns which were bred for highest egg output per feed input.
To do a little research and take a set feed weight that is reported chickens need and only provide that, when clearly they need more isn't doing yourself any favors.
Chickens are voracious eaters. They need fresh complete feed available all waking hours.
If feed isn't available, they'll eat whatever they can get in their mouths. That could be bedding, feces, etc. Which would you rather they eat? Feed will contribute to health and production, most other things will detract from those.
They eat primarily to satisfy energy needs but also to get the essential amino acids they need.
By limiting feed and supplementing with vegetables, fruits and sprouted grains, you are cutting their protein intake.
Let's do a little math. 8 pounds of feed (16% protein) and 6 pounds of wheat/barley sprouts (max 10% protein) comes out to 13%. First of all, that is too low for body maintenance and production. Secondly it isn't just about the crude protein percentage.
Animals require an array of amino acids for the synthesis of tissue, regulatory, protective and secretory systems every day for health and production.
The latter foodstuffs (sprouts) are woefully deficient in lysine, methionine and tryptophan.
So your statement that "So overall, it was easily twice what I've read that they "need"" is incorrect because you are only talking about pounds provided, not the nutrition therein.

Most of my birds free range over an area with a variety of forage and this time of year there are lots of bugs, frogs and greenery. They eat half the feed in summer than they do in winter.
If you're unhappy with the amount of feed they're consuming now, you'll hate it come winter.

There's no cheaper way to feed chickens for production while providing optimal nutrition than to keep a complete feed available. There are many illnesses that can develop from birds not fully fed.
Your challenge is to limit waste. The type of feeder you use will help. A feeder with fins around the rim will prevent billing out.
Putting some type of catch container under the feeder will catch what they throw out and you can reuse it.
Keeping the feed under the building at night while the chickens are locked up above is an opportunity for feeding rodents and wild birds. You could be losing lots of feed that way. Feed should be put away at night where rodents can't have access to it.

Another way to limit waste is to ferment feed. That will bind up the fines where the micronutrients and synthetic amino acids are and prevent billing out.
With 30 birds, that is easily doable. I've made fermented feed for as many as 70 birds.
It is a little more of a hassle than bulk dry feed but I sometimes cut as much as 1/3 of feed consumption by fermenting.

Keeping chickens is expensive. You won't have a money machine with 30 hens.
Egg farms make money due to economy of scale. They have tens of thousands of birds and buy feed by the ton.
If you could arrange to buy in bulk, you would save money over buying in 40 and 50 lb. bags. With 30 birds, that may not be feasible to keep feed fresh.

There aren't berries on the berry bushes now are there?
I close off the berry patches during flowering and fruiting but let the chickens run in there the rest of the year.

 

[casportpony]

You've gotten some excellent advice so far and I have some thoughts to share and points to clarify.
If you mentioned the birds' ages, I missed it.
Are your birds laying yet? If so, how is the production? What is their age and how many eggs are you getting on average from the 30 layers?
I'm not really surprised by what you are reporting.
Reds (bulk of your flock) need lots more feed than leghorns which were bred for highest egg output per feed input.
To do a little research and take a set feed weight that is reported chickens need and only provide that, when clearly they need more isn't doing yourself any favors.
Chickens are voracious eaters. They need fresh complete feed available all waking hours.
If feed isn't available, they'll eat whatever they can get in their mouths. That could be bedding, feces, etc. Which would you rather they eat? Feed will contribute to health and production, most other things will detract from those.
They eat primarily to satisfy energy needs but also to get the essential amino acids they need.
By limiting feed and supplementing with vegetables, fruits and sprouted grains, you are cutting their protein intake.
Let's do a little math. 8 pounds of feed (16% protein) and 6 pounds of wheat/barley sprouts (max 10% protein) comes out to 13%. First of all, that is too low for body maintenance and production. Secondly it isn't just about the crude protein percentage.
Animals require an array of amino acids for the synthesis of tissue, regulatory, protective and secretory systems every day for health and production.
The latter foodstuffs (sprouts) are woefully deficient in lysine, methionine and tryptophan.
So your statement that "So overall, it was easily twice what I've read that they "need"" is incorrect because you are only talking about pounds provided, not the nutrition therein.

Most of my birds free range over an area with a variety of forage and this time of year there are lots of bugs, frogs and greenery. They eat half the feed in summer than they do in winter.
If you're unhappy with the amount of feed they're consuming now, you'll hate it come winter.

There's no cheaper way to feed chickens for production while providing optimal nutrition than to keep a complete feed available. There are many illnesses that can develop from birds not fully fed.
Your challenge is to limit waste. The type of feeder you use will help. A feeder with fins around the rim will prevent billing out.
Putting some type of catch container under the feeder will catch what they throw out and you can reuse it.
Keeping the feed under the building at night while the chickens are locked up above is an opportunity for feeding rodents and wild birds. You could be losing lots of feed that way. Feed should be put away at night where rodents can't have access to it.

Another way to limit waste is to ferment feed. That will bind up the fines where the micronutrients and synthetic amino acids are and prevent billing out.
With 30 birds, that is easily doable. I've made fermented feed for as many as 70 birds.
It is a little more of a hassle than bulk dry feed but I sometimes cut as much as 1/3 of feed consumption by fermenting.

Keeping chickens is expensive. You won't have a money machine with 30 hens.
Egg farms make money due to economy of scale. They have tens of thousands of birds and buy feed by the ton.
If you could arrange to buy in bulk, you would save money over buying in 40 and 50 lb. bags. With 30 birds, that may not be feasible to keep feed fresh.

There aren't berries on the berry bushes now are there?
I close off the berry patches during flowering and fruiting but let the chickens run in there the rest of the year.

Excellent post! Thanks for taking the time and effort in writing it!

-Kathy

 

[dlampkin]

Sorry for the late reply, life's been hectic...

Thank you for posting all of this information. Here's some more information.

One of the reasons I cut back on the food was because of the reduced eggs. I look at a variety of sources because there are so many opinions. I had read one place that said that during the summer if they overeat, it raises their metabolism and that can be one factor in reduced laying. So, I started doing 6 pounds of food in the morning and another 2 in the evening when I get home and then I'll top it off if they need more (on weekends, I do about 4 pounds in the morning and then top it off whenever it gets empty. They are wasting alot, but less when it's not the "free feed" I am working on building another feeder where they can't waste as much. I've started putting tubs of water in the freezer and putting that in their water (2 5 gallon buckets and added a small tub on the ground) and adding a little apple cider vinegar to the water. The waterer on the ground is cleaned and refilled each night after they are in the coop since it gets pretty filthy. I also added a fan that stays on unless the temps drop below about 65 at night (which they haven't many nights). I also cleaned a place under the coop that they hang out alot during the heat of the day as it would smell when it rained. I also put out a feeder with oyster shells. I've also fenced in another 250 or 300 sq ft run that they have access to on the weekends (I don't allow them there all week so that the grass stays there, I haven't mowed it all summer, so it's a couple of feet high in places). With all of that, the eggs have come back up, and a few more have started laying, so the egg count is higher, but again a few more hens are laying now. I do understand that the fodder isn't as nutritious as the feed, but it's not junk food, nothing they get is unhealthy, and if they were allowed to completely free range, it's feed that they'd eat on their own. Also, where do you get the information on the wheat and barley at 10% protein? I'm not doubting you, but I had read other places that put it higher. I understand that they will eat more in the winter for their metabolism and that's fine. I'm clearly not doing this for a money machine, but I should be able to produce the eggs for less than the free range / organic ones in the stores that aren't the mass commercial ones.

I don't let them near the bushes, but the berries were done about 2 or 3 weeks ago (blackberries were done a month or so ago).

I'll have to look into fermenting the food, I've heard about it, but not looked at it much.

Of the 30 birds, 5 leghorns and 9 of the reds were hatched right around the first of March. 4 leghorns are laying regularly and I get 3-4 of their eggs a day. 16 of the reds are laying, they are about a year old, I was getting 14-15 eggs a day, it dropped to about 8 or 9 a day. More reds are starting to lay, I'm getting a few small, soft eggs, and my egg count is up and I now get about 21-23 a day and have been getting a small soft one every other day or so for a week or two (egg count has been slowly going up, but I don't know exactly how many of the remaining 9 from March are laying yet).

Lastly, I have noticed that the alpha rooster is getting very rough with them, so I'm building a smaller coop and run for the roosters so they won't be with the hens. I've read that roosters will lower egg production and some say it won't. Regardless, the talons on the alpha rooster are an inch and a half or two inches long and I'm afraid he'll stab a hen with them...

I do appreciate the comments, I take every one of them into consideration...

Thanks,

Dan

 

[junebuggena]

I'm clearly not doing this for a money machine, but I should be able to produce the eggs for less than the free range / organic ones in the stores that aren't the mass commercial ones.

Actually, no. Small flock keepers cannot produce eggs for less than what the organic store eggs do. You are dealing with 30 birds. They have flocks that number into the thousands. Yes, the organic farms have huge flocks. Even free range farms have huge flocks. In fact, free range just means that the birds must have access to an outdoor space. It doesn't mean that it's an appropriately sized outdoor area. They buy feed in bulk, and they purchase it directly from the mills that produce it. They can feed their birds for much less than the average person can. And that is what a lot of people fail to realize.

The need to keep extras in check is pretty important. You have to remember that egg whites are almost entirely protein, and that protein has to come from somewhere. Layer feed is formulated with the bare minimum needed for egg production. If you start adjusting that balance or cut back on it too much, the birds just physically cannot produce an egg.

As for the heat, they eat less in warm weather. Not eating as much causes them to take in less protein. Not enough protein, and they can't make eggs. It is also a big stress on them. Most dual-purpose breeds are not equipped to deal with temps over 90*. When it's that hot, they do begin to suffer. Heat stressed birds don't lay.
You also have young birds that are too young to be laying. They need access to feed all day long if you want them to mature and start laying. Denying them feed will back-fire on you and cause them to be very delayed in their development. And you have mature birds that are getting ready to start molting. Back to the protein issue. Feathers are almost all protein. When molting, they put all of their energy into replacing those feathers. That does not leave anything for reproduction.
Roosters do not affect laying ability as long as there are enough hens to go around, and ample (way more than most people realize) space is provided. Cram a bunch of hormonal males and hens into a run that is just barely big enough, and you will have issues.

 

[dlampkin]

Thank you for your post!

Everyone says that when it's hotter they eat less. We had a cool spell a week or so ago and they ate much less than normal. I didn't have to top the food off at all.No doubt that when winter gets here they will eat more (from what I read, this will be my first winter), but so far for the summer, the hotter it gets the more they eat, which was my concern that it was raising their metabolism too high (again from what I read). I read that roosters won't affect the laying, but I've talked to two people that swear up and down it does. One guy has had chickens for 4 years now and said he's introduced roosters twice and both times the egg count went down. Clearly this isn't scientific research, but my main reason for separating them is that the leghorn rooster is getting pretty rough with them. Even in the coop when the light comes on he chases them all around and it gets very chaotic inside the coop at times. If it helps the laying great, but it's a secondary concern...

 

[junebuggena]

Thank you for your post!

Everyone says that when it's hotter they eat less. We had a cool spell a week or so ago and they ate much less than normal. I didn't have to top the food off at all.No doubt that when winter gets here they will eat more (from what I read, this will be my first winter), but so far for the summer, the hotter it gets the more they eat, which was my concern that it was raising their metabolism too high (again from what I read). I read that roosters won't affect the laying, but I've talked to two people that swear up and down it does. One guy has had chickens for 4 years now and said he's introduced roosters twice and both times the egg count went down. Clearly this isn't scientific research, but my main reason for separating them is that the leghorn rooster is getting pretty rough with them. Even in the coop when the light comes on he chases them all around and it gets very chaotic inside the coop at times. If it helps the laying great, but it's a secondary concern...

Roosters in the flock do not affect laying, provided there is ample room, and plenty of hens. If you are short on either, they can be a major source of stress. Sounds like you don't have enough room to keep a rooster if the hens.
As for the egg count going down when a rooster is introduced to a flock, the answer is stress. When you add a new bird to the flock, it causes a change to the social order. Change equates to stress. Stressed birds don't lay.

 

[dlampkin]

My roosters have been with the hens since well before they started laying. I'll know if it affects their laying once I get their pen built. To say that it just doesn't affect the laying is just flat out wrong. maybe for some it doesn't, but for some it does. I understand that stress will affect laying, so if a rooster with 1.5 inch sharp talons rides a dozen or so hens a day and it pretty rough doing it, why would you not think that's stressful? It has to introduce some stress. And if highly stressed birds don't lay, then the commercial ones in a 1 cubic foot cage it's whole life shouldn't be laying? There is clearly variety of factors in play. I have roughly 750 sq ft for 32 them during the week and about 950 to 1000 sq ft on weekends, so 25 to 30 sq ft per bird, is way, way more than plenty.

The biggest problem is that every one has their own opinion. I would imagine it's because everyone's situation is a little different and birds act a little differently and I understand that. But so many people say affirmatively and it seems that they know what they're talking about. saying that 750 (even if they didn't have their weekend retreat) isn't enough room is just flat out wrong. When I joined this, I would see people with 10's of thousands of posts, and it gives the impression that they must really know their stuff, but then I see that many, many of the posts are just 1 to 4 word replies "great post". Maybe some just try to get their numbers up. But I take everyone's input on here, my local feed store, other local people (and people online) I talk to with birds and such and try to come up with the best solution for my birds. This is my first year raising chickens, and I'm learning a lot. I appreciate all of the posts, as they all help complete the big picture.