Chicken flock guardians

[Bear Foot Farm]

do you have any photos of your Maremmas?

 

[cackleberrycoop]

Quote:
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/BrandysPuppies068.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/BrandysPuppies073.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/Lambsanddogs018_edited.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/Maremmas2011_edited.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/Brandy014.jpg

Oh, you're KILLING me here, Bear Foot Farm! Your dogs are gorgeous, simply stunning! They look happy and very well suited to the life they are living. Thank you for sharing those photos.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Your dogs are gorgeous, simply stunning!

Thank you , Ma'am, but it's not all glamour and cuteness

This:

Can turn into this:

And this:

Can end up like this:

LOL​

 

[salunra]

I have 5 acres. half wooded, half open. We are looking to get some chickens in the spring. I also have cats, an iguana and 2 children (aged 2yrs and 4yrs).

We have been talking about getting a dog. I am thinking about getting an LGD because I want something that will be safe with the chickens. But how do they do with small children and other small animals?

Thanks!

 

[startingover]

LGD do great with anything they are raised with. Children, pets, etc. Socialization is the key to these dogs. An unsocialized LGD is NOT a pretty sight. Thereare exceptions with every dog though.

 

[centrarchid]

What is your climate? I have had German Shorthaired Pointers for over 30 years and can tell you that if you experience any sort of winter weather, they are NOT suitable for outside guarding 24/7. They are not bred to have a coat that will withstand cold unless they are actively working (as in running/hunting).

We have had 3 predator losses from our flock of 24 this year. All were in the late morning when the GSPs were out playing in the yard. If they SEE a predator enter the yard they are great protectors but this is not a herding breed designed for flock protection.

I have friends that for years have had Italian Maremma (maremmano) dogs that were raised with their poultry from 8 weeks of age and lived with them 24/7. Those friends had no predator losses. I have no doubt that Pyrs are also fantastic protectors.

Lifestock guarding breeds not used for herding and herding activity is in no way desired.

We get about 18" snow per year and at least a couple days per year of less than 0 F. Cold enough on cold days that black and tan coon hounds and dalmations usually come out only for food, water and calls of nature. Same dogs will bolt out at midnight when it is as cold as it gets if chickens disturbed. We lost few if any birds to predators with these dogs present and both breeds are short-haired and neither bred as livestock guarding dogs. Many people, even those with many years of experience with dalmations, will indicate they are strictly companion animals but we found at least some individuals were good livestock guarders and some where ideally suited hunting small game. Not all could do it but you had to at least give them a chance and where needed provide conditioning.

My operation is not simply having dogs and chickens. Landscape is managed with roosting (night and day) locations set to give dogs maximal view of pastures. Also cover / refuges for poultry intended to buy time for birds until dogs get involved. Dog houses are positioned near roost so night time protection typically very good.

When I indicate 24/7, dogs will have free access to areas where birds forage and roost at all times. If a dog breed has any defensive behavior at all in respect to property, then it has potential for guarding poultry. Your marammano, like Pyrs, were bred to move with a mobile flock of ruminants. Stressing were because most now, when worked, guard confined flocks often centered on some sort of constructed shelter. Increased cold tolerance required for fully exposed winter guarding but my dogs will have protection from weather.

Until I see results of properly performed guarding trials involving free range poultry with various dog breeds (or their crosses) and that include breeds not historically bred for guarding ruminants, there is no reason to rank dog breeds in respect to guarding a species in a situation for which any dogs are not bred to perform. Even if a breed is shown to be superior, that breed will not be 100% effective all of time. The only breed(s) likely bred for task are village dogs in parts of world that dog keepers in US would consider as mutts since not properly documented with some canine breeding registry.​

 

[cackleberrycoop]

Quote:
Thank you , Ma'am, but it's not all glamour and cuteness

This:
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/Belle031.jpg

Can turn into this:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/Lambsanddogs014_edited-1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/Lambsanddogs015_edited.jpg

And this:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/BrandyandBelle008_edited.jpg

Can end up like this:
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/DirtyDogs006.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/Bearfootfarm/DirtyDogs007.jpg



LOL

Delightful.

 

[Goldenseal]

Quote:
I think my first thoughts about using hunting dogs particularly bird dogs as guardians, is, I thought they couldnt or wouldnt do it. LOL
My dad always had a hunting dog kennel, we've had most every breed at one time or another, I wouldnt trust
any of those critters near my birds....in fact , the last GSP he had was so darn mean they put him down....but not until
he went to bite one of my little girls in the face and got her pony tail in stead...I hated that dog. Bad temperament
from the start, I never would have even kept him.

I figured ( as I mentioned before) their prey drive would get in the say, but I guess not, due to your success.

as for the dalmation, Ive never met a sane one for any purpose, seems like every dal Ive met has been a nasty
snarling hyper beast. I wouldnt have thought of them as a guardian either.

on the other hand, my bullmastiff, whom is SUPPOSE to be a guardian...well.... you saw the photo.

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Our best LGD is a 1/2 BORDER COLLIE, 1/2 ANATOLIAN.

Yes, he DOES have strong herding instincts but also is VERY protective and not just of the chickens/ducks/geese but also with the cats, our house and our property. He does NOT move the ducks & geese unless I ask him to (he will help put them away for the night) and he watches them all day.

I no longer let my chickens out if I'm not home (we had to shoot a neighbor's GSP a few years back after it came over and tore up all of my birds, TWICE). Cash was in town with me the first time it happened so totally my fault for leaving birds out, unattended...but the second time there was a HUGE dog fight (Cash & our Borzoi, Brodee) ripping into this 65lb GSP which we dispatched quickly.

Our Borzoi was awesome with coyotes, too....he could run them down in just a few HUGE strides and would grab their throats and shake while Cash caught up and they'd finish the coyote together. Brodee's downside was that he was very thin-skinned and would need stitches after some battles.

The most that we've had to deal with Cash about was his eye once...the lid got split in a fight but usually, the coyotes are just grabbing fur.

Brodee:

Cash:

 

[vicki2x2]

Quote:
Lifestock guarding breeds not used for herding and herding activity is in no way desired.

We get about 18" snow per year and at least a couple days per year of less than 0 F. Cold enough on cold days that black and tan coon hounds and dalmations usually come out only for food, water and calls of nature. Same dogs will bolt out at midnight when it is as cold as it gets if chickens disturbed. We lost few if any birds to predators with these dogs present and both breeds are short-haired and neither bred as livestock guarding dogs. Many people, even those with many years of experience with dalmations, will indicate they are strictly companion animals but we found at least some individuals were good livestock guarders and some where ideally suited hunting small game. Not all could do it but you had to at least give them a chance and where needed provide conditioning.

My operation is not simply having dogs and chickens. Landscape is managed with roosting (night and day) locations set to give dogs maximal view of pastures. Also cover / refuges for poultry intended to buy time for birds until dogs get involved. Dog houses are positioned near roost so night time protection typically very good.

When I indicate 24/7, dogs will have free access to areas where birds forage and roost at all times. If a dog breed has any defensive behavior at all in respect to property, then it has potential for guarding poultry. Your marammano, like Pyrs, were bred to move with a mobile flock of ruminants. Stressing were because most now, when worked, guard confined flocks often centered on some sort of constructed shelter. Increased cold tolerance required for fully exposed winter guarding but my dogs will have protection from weather.

Until I see results of properly performed guarding trials involving free range poultry with various dog breeds (or their crosses) and that include breeds not historically bred for guarding ruminants, there is no reason to rank dog breeds in respect to guarding a species in a situation for which any dogs are not bred to perform. Even if a breed is shown to be superior, that breed will not be 100% effective all of time. The only breed(s) likely bred for task are village dogs in parts of world that dog keepers in US would consider as mutts since not properly documented with some canine breeding registry.

Except the breeds you are using are not even suited for your purpose. These breeds are bonded to their stock. They are not just protecting the property, they love their charges. They prefer them to all else. Also, the Maremma;s are still used in Italy with flocks in the mountains and at least the breeder I got my dogs from, imports her dogs directly from Italy. So yes, they will follow their charges anywhere they go, but that is not an unusual trait, all LGD breeds are like that.