Chicken flock guardians

[vicki2x2]

I need to update pictures of my two, maybe tomorrow. I have some on my phone, but the pic quality is probably not very good. Here is what I have. They are 11 months & 22 months now. They are fabulous dogs, I absolutely adore them. So sweet, adore my kids and love attention, but yet, love their goats and all the other animals.

Kimber at 10 weeks

Kimber at 5 months

Remi at 10 weeks

Remi at 4 months

Remi at 5 months coming home

meeting the little kids

Remi at about 7 months

Remi at 16 months

 

[chickerdoodle]

OK, I almost had to wash my computer screen because I tried to kiss that puppy's nose in the 4th picture.

 

[centrarchid]

vicki2x2,

Where I work we have a couple hundred head of sheep and goats spread out over as many acres with at least 8 paddocks. Great Pyreenes are the breed of choice for flock protection and presently 6 dogs split into 3 pairs are charged with caring for livestock. Some stay with stock some stay around shelter. More than twice as many dogs have been tested for LGD qualities and only about half were good enough to stay. Rest went to folks wanting a LGD breed just to have one but not really worked as such. Part of this because of improper imprinting, some may be that such dogs not suited to such restricted ranges. Point being made is just because a dog is of a breed selected a particular purpose does not mean it will perform well at task selected for, especially when dog not properly conditioned. Also just because a dog breed does not have recent selection for a given activity, especially livestock guarding does not mean it is not incapable, especially if the right conditioning regime with imprinting is employed.


I did not say following stock is an unusual trait for LGD, rather it is not needed to for guarding poultry. Poultry flocks operate within localized home ranges and social structure of chickens not tight like with ruminants such as sheep and to a lesser degree goats and cattle. Guarding of chickens does not require the dogs love for its charges, rather the chickens need to stay within the LGD's protective umbrella where the dog is more concerned about territory than animals it contains. For this too work, LGD need not to regard poultry as target of its own interest.

Any dog breed can be bonded to another species. Best evidence to this is bonding of dogs to humans. Some breeds more suitable to adopting and maintaining a territory of appropriate size for free ranging flocks of chickens.

A point to ponder is that most dogs did not exist as breeds we know today prior to a couple hundred years ago and many of those dogs were multiple purpose in their value to keepers. They served as guard dogs, vermin control and hunting partners. Killing livestock when off duty was likely bad for survival prospects and if livestock protected as part of guard duty survival prospects improved. I suspect these guard dog qualities persist in most breeds (why else bark at strangers) even if not all individuals.

Before this discussion goes further, dog breeds need to be compared for guarding poultry. Extrapolating the guarding of roaming herds of small ruminants to optimal qualifications for guarding poultry is a romantic notation otherwise.

 

[vicki2x2]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I would like to point out however, that your example is hard for us to judge as we have no idea where those dogs came from, what type of breeder or breeding. What type of training or lack there of they had, among other things.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
Black and tans in family for three generations (human) and at least 3 times that for dogs. Dalmations two for dog. I think nuture (rearing method) overrides nature (genetic background). We provided training as we were kennel. Many dogs kept for entire lives as either hunting dogs (hounds) or companions (dals). Ultimately source not that important as blue bloodiness not a reliable indicator of traits / abilities not considered standard for breed. Dogs were / are registered.

If question in regards to great pyrs, then this must be said; even if a dog is of the best proven bloodline, it does not mean that all that effort can not be botched for an individual through improper training. Even your Maremmas of recent Italian extraction may not be suited to working with a mobile flock of sheep since you conditioned them, as individuals, to work with a menagerie of animals with a tight home range, possibly fenced in. The opposite can be true for a mutt with proper traning. Most individual dogs pack a lot more mental flexibility than efforts to breed in instincts would indicate. Therefore I am saying dogs can be quite intelligent if given chance.

 

[pride&joy]

my pac guards goats, chickens and what ever else I decide is part of the pac.

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[centrarchid]

pride&joy,

How many acres does you pack have to guard? Are they or stock confined? System we had and will have again involves confined four-legged stock with dogs and chickens able to go through or over fences. Some dogs also confined, some inclined to roam with intent of hunting on their own time for days. Others went out when gun, flashligts and cold weather dawned. Hunting on own time will be strictly inhibited as present location dogs romping through unattended could get them shot.

Some chickens, broodstock, confined to control who mates with who and provides backup in case something bad does happen to free ranging flocks. Broodstock for me most important. To become broodstock, you have to perform well in free range setting and at show.

I assume your dogs and birds not challenged by cold in southern Florida?

 

[Goldenseal]

...for myself, with 240 acres, I dont confine the birds, except for right now, they went in the coop
and wont come out. LOL the barn is heated and they are not impressed with all the snow.

I think that would be ample room for a pyr

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
As a kid we had similar acreage but chieckens did not utilize more than 20 acres. How does your dog deal with flock busting up and going in separate directions. Our dogs for most of day stayed back in shade of out buidlings. They (dogs) would multiple times during day would go out and scent mark. Chickens alarm cackling would get dogs to look in direction of disturbance and distress squalling would get them moving into direction of disturbance. Dogs seemed able to discern real predator calls from social problems usually attributable to stags.

 

[Goldenseal]

...exactly, the birds stay up by the buildings, but the coyotes come right up as well.

now, if you look at my first post here, you will see my dog...uh.....unless the
chicken disturbs her ability to stretch out on the couch...she doesnt really notice!

My daughter moved home and brought her corgi with her, that dog tries to eat
the chickens, but now is so old and deaf she isnt much of a threat.

thats why I figured a pyr would stay right out with the birds, patrol the acres etc.
a shorthair would freeze up here, it was -30 last week with windchill.