Chicken keeping without coops or with mutiple coops

[Shadrach]

I’m interested in any experiences that people have had keeping chickens without a coop.
There are a number of farms and smallholdings locally here in Catalonia, Spain that have been keeping chickens for generations without purpose built coops.
4 kilometres down the mountain where i live there are 9 chickens who roost up a tree at night.
Across the valley there are a number of farms where the chickens roost in open barns, up trees, and in spare rooms in the house.
I’m particularly interested in hearing from people who have mixed breeds living in such conditions
I realise that many people will consider keeping chickens in this manner irresponsible but chickens are kept in similar conditions all over the world and have been for generations.
The chicken lays all those eggs because in ‘natural’ conditions few chicks survive.
I also realise that many breeds now can’t get up a tree because of human interference by target breeding for particular characteristics; heavy meat breeds and some dual purpose breeds for examples.

I’m using a multiple coop system at the moment; a coop per tribe, but the chickens don’t always come home and the Bantams in particular go up the trees every night. This isn’t a problem, they come down when I call them (mostly) and go into their coop but it does demonstrate that the Bantams and the cross breeds still have the instinct to sleep in the trees.

It seems to me that a lot of ‘old knowledge’ based on generations of experience and observation has been forgotten as the chicken became product and egg and meat production became more important than the long term welfare of the chicken.

There are a few pieces of old knowledge that I have picked up as I gathered information for my book that reading some of the problems on this forum might be worth bearing in mind.

1) Don’t mix breeds
2) One cock for every 3 to 5 hens
3) Provide lots of cover, bushes, trees, plants even man made shelters
4) Chickens fight but fights in the family or tribe tend not to be serious while fights between cocks and hens from other tribes often are.

 

[Kfults]

My grandfather never had a coup, he had several old open sheds that the chickens would lay in.... they laid eggs everywhere. They roosted wherever and free ranged 24/7. He had so many chickens I would wonder if he would have even noticed if he lost one to a predator. I imagine he would be amused at my set up and all the protective measures that I have in place.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I grew up on the type of farm you are describing. We had a hen house where most of the chickens slept and most laid eggs, but many slept in trees. As a kid it was my job to find as many of the nests not in the hen house as I could. I found most of them but not all. Occasionally a broody hen would show up with a brood of chicks. I remember two serious predator attacks from childhood until I left the farm for college at 18, a fox and a dog, both of which were shot. The chickens fed themselves in the good weather months. During winter, mainly when snow was on the ground, we supplemented their feed with corn (maize) that we grew ourselves. In our climate there were not a lot of snow days. Many people would be amazed at how well they can forage though having cattle and horses provided them additional forage in winter. In winter kitchen wastes were thrown out where the chickens could find them. Other times of the year we'd have pigs that got all the kitchen wastes.

This forum is called backyard chickens, not farmyard chickens. The vast majority of people do not have the conditions required to keep chickens this way. They don't have the forage or shelter required. A whole lot keep a few chickens in a small suburban backyard, usually in a small coop and run where they micromanage everything the chickens eat. The chickens are sometimes as much a pet as a family dog. People often want the absolute best for those chickens, the best food, safety, and living conditions. They do not have a lot in common with how small farmers have kept chickens for thousands of years. They have different predator pressure than farmers that have managed chickens for generations.

I'll try to comment on your points.

1) Don’t mix breeds

Why not? What breed are the chickens you see at all those at those Spanish farms? Dad's chickens in Appalachia were what you called a barnyard mix. They had some game in them but every five to eight years Dad would bring home some chicks, I remember Dominique and New Hampshire, when he wanted to renew genetic diversity and try to improve the quality of his flock.

2) One cock for every 3 to 5 hens

Dad generally kept one rooster with 25 to 30 hens unless he was raising a replacement cockerel, then he'd have two for a while. Practically all the eggs were fertile. What kind of male-female ratios do you see on those Catalonian farms? Why do you feel a 3 to 5 female per male ratio is beneficial?

3) Provide lots of cover, bushes, trees, plants even man made shelters

Agree, this in important. So is predator management.

4) Chickens fight but fights in the family or tribe tend not to be serious while fights between cocks and hens from other tribes often are.

Interesting comment. How many serious fights between hens and roosters have you actually seen with that kind of room? If you are talking about pullets and cockerels maybe. But with sufficient room I'd question now much fighting you are likely to see between mature hens and mature roosters, whether between the same or different tribe. You may see a rooster force mate a resistant hen but to me that is not serious fighting.

 

[lazy gardener]

I would not attempt such husbandry unless:

1. I lived in a more temperate climate. I don't. I live in winter wonder land where temps can stay below 0*F for weeks at a time. Snow cover up to 4' and I never saw bare ground between Nov and April last winter.

2. I had a LGD or two that lived outside 24/7.

3. I was located far away from any neighbors.

4. I was willing to accept heavy predator losses.

5. I was equipped and willing to kill all predators that crossed my boundary.

6. I had lots of protection from overhead predation. This is my worst problem now. Most of my flock is kept under bird netting 24/7. THe hawks have killed all of the song bird nestlings in my area. No doubt, all of the 22 chicks hatched this season would have been hawk fodder if not contained.

7. I would consider an electric perimeter fence to be absolutely necessary. This fence would have to have good current, be checked daily, and kept free of weeds or other entanglements that would ground it out.

 

[Pugsabi]

I’m interested in any experiences that people have had keeping chickens without a coop.
There are a number of farms and smallholdings locally here in Catalonia, Spain that have been keeping chickens for generations without purpose built coops.
4 kilometres down the mountain where i live there are 9 chickens who roost up a tree at night.
Across the valley there are a number of farms where the chickens roost in open barns, up trees, and in spare rooms in the house.
I’m particularly interested in hearing from people who have mixed breeds living in such conditions
I realise that many people will consider keeping chickens in this manner irresponsible but chickens are kept in similar conditions all over the world and have been for generations.
The chicken lays all those eggs because in ‘natural’ conditions few chicks survive.
I also realise that many breeds now can’t get up a tree because of human interference by target breeding for particular characteristics; heavy meat breeds and some dual purpose breeds for examples.

I’m using a multiple coop system at the moment; a coop per tribe, but the chickens don’t always come home and the Bantams in particular go up the trees every night. This isn’t a problem, they come down when I call them (mostly) and go into their coop but it does demonstrate that the Bantams and the cross breeds still have the instinct to sleep in the trees.

It seems to me that a lot of ‘old knowledge’ based on generations of experience and observation has been forgotten as the chicken became product and egg and meat production became more important than the long term welfare of the chicken.

There are a few pieces of old knowledge that I have picked up as I gathered information for my book that reading some of the problems on this forum might be worth bearing in mind.

1) Don’t mix breeds
2) One cock for every 3 to 5 hens
3) Provide lots of cover, bushes, trees, plants even man made shelters
4) Chickens fight but fights in the family or tribe tend not to be serious while fights between cocks and hens from other tribes often are.

My mother was born in Dominican Republic and their chickens don't not have a coop, they slept in the trees. However DR is an island and they don't have the predators that we have here in Texas. I keep a coop because if I didn't I would have any chickens left! We have hawks, owls, snakes, opossums, weasels, racoons, and coyote just in my neighborhood! I don't even live out in the country. So unless I want to give out free chicken dinners I have to keep a coop. Plus in my area it's illegal not to have one, if you keep chickens.

 

[Shadrach]

2) One cock for every 3 to 5 hens

For the following to make sense you need to know that:
all the chickens here are free range but most sleep in coops,
there have been a maximum of five tribes/social groups here and currently there are three,
each tribe has it’s own coop or coops
each tribe comprises one senior cock and one senior hen. Each tribe may have junior cocks which are the progeny of the senior cock and a hen from his tribe, not necessarily the senior hen and up to five hens and assorted chicks.

The book is based around observations gathered over seven years of observing these chickens and keeping records of notable events. These observations have been turned into stories, some specific to an individual, some specific to a tribe and some ‘imaginative’ stories based around how I see the differing personalities of the characters.

The ‘evidence’ for my conclusions at the end of the book rely on the preceding stories.
It’s not possible to condense a book for a forum page or two, so below is the very briefest of a summary in an attempt to answer your questions in a reasonably comprehensive manner.


The Role of the Cock.
Most of the studies I’ve read have been mainly concerned with the hen; she is the one that produces the eggs so this isn’t really surprising. I’ve found relatively little information on the role of the cock. Many people who keep chickens are unable, or reluctant to keep a cock. There are fertility problems, cocks are noisy, there is an unwarranted view in my opinion, that many are aggressive, so there isn’t even the same volume of anecdotal evidence as there is for hens.

The most obvious role of the cock is to fertilise the hens eggs and a cock in its prime can ‘service’ a large number of hens and many people who keep chickens don’t look at the cocks role any further.

The cock also receives recognition as a protector of hens; this is a bit more interesting.
There is lots of anecdotal evidence of cocks fighting each other and this is usually taken to be over access to females so a cock ‘protects’ his hens from other cocks to ensure his genes get passed on it’s reasonable to assume.

I’ve only known of one cock here who may have actually attacked a predator in an attempt to protect a hen and what makes this slightly different, her chicks; he died.

Given the majority of predators are better equipped at attacking than a cock is at defending if every cock laid his life on the line in event of a predator attack, given the ratio of cocks to hens normally kept, there wouldn’t be many cocks left rather rapidly.

What the cock does is keep watch while the hens eat and when he sees a predator (the hens are too busy stuffing their faces; okay, they’ve got eggs to make) he gives a warning sound. Interestingly it’s not the sound many think it is.

Both the predator warning sounds I’ve heard are very quiet, it’s only when the hens are running or crouching that he makes all that noise. Some studies I’ve read disagree with this but I’ve heard these warning calls so often now.

Bear in mind the cock doesn’t want to die and he runs for cover as soon as he’s made the call along with his hens. Any loud call is likely to divert a predators attention to the cock.

I’ve identified 3 warning calls, one for a ground predator, one for an air born predator and another for everything else that isn’t from his social group. I’m going to call this social group a tribe from here on. I’ll try to explain why further on.

The cock isn’t in the ‘pecking order’, it’s a hen thing. What the cocks role is regarding the pecking order is to stop the fights between hens in his own tribe from getting too serious. He shouts at them if they’re bickering and if problems continue and a fight develops he breaks it up; if he can. I’ve seen a senior hen having a fight with a junior hen who had been harassing her for some weeks and when the cock went to break the fight up the senior hen took him on as well.

When it comes to other cocks, including his male progeny he will either fight or run.

With the cocks here, they are all different, we often get a dominant cock, or a bully if you like.

He’ll pick on more junior ,or more timid cocks from other tribes. From what I’ve seen the bully isn’t interested in the other cocks hens, it’s usually about access to food, best shelter and plain ego.

One of the Bantam cocks here got bullied mercilessly by a cross breed cock who was about three times his weight and the hens in the Bantam cock’s tribe stuck with him. Eventually the bully took on another cock from another tribe and lost the fight; he’s been better behaved since.

It’s when it comes to egg laying that a good cock becomes invaluable. You need to assume that there are no established nesting/egg laying sites for the hen in question. Once a site is established the behaviour changes. You also need to accept that each tribe moves as a group with the cock in sight of all the hens. It’s dangerous for a hen that gets separated from the group and the hens know this. The only time a hen leaves the group deliberately (there are exceptions) is when she goes to lay an egg, or sit on a clutch.

This is what happens here, with all the cocks and hens who belong to a tribe.

The hen lets the cock know she wants to lay an egg. I don’t know how this is done but I believe it may be a combination of body language and chemical excretion.

The cock tries to move the tribe to a place of safety.

Meanwhile the hen often starts to make the escort call which is the sound many people associate with a hen wanting to lay an egg; it isn’t, it’s an escort call. (better explanation later)

The hen and the cock leave the tribe and go to look for a suitable egg laying site. This can take hours. I’ve watched hens go from one site to another and then back again. Often the cock will suggest a site. He gets into position and scratches the ground and makes a range of sounds from a coo cooing sound to a screech. Sometimes the hen will try out the site for a while and then change her mind and they start again. I’ve seen a cock hustle a hen off a site, I assume because he didn’t consider it safe enough. Eventually a site gets chosen and the hen settles to lay the egg. Depending on the demands form the tribe ( other escort calls from hens wanting to lay an egg, a predator attack, a hen who has wandered and can’t find the tribe, a hen who has finished laying and wants an escort back to the tribe) the cock may wait for the hen in that locality, or return to the tribe.

Sometimes the hen leaves choosing a site too late and gets caught short and has to lay where she is.
In this case the cock sits on top of the hen to protect her while she lays the egg.
Once the hen has finished laying the egg she calls for the cock to escort her back to the tribe if she can’t see him.

This is the call that some people (I read it on BYC a couple of times years ago) take to be the delight of the hen in laying an egg. It isn’t, it’s an escort call. It doesn’t seem to matter what the cock to hen arrangement is, or even if there is a cock to call, all hens make it. (there are exceptions)

If one thinks for a moment about the dangers involved when a hen lays an egg in a free range ,or natural environment the above makes sense. To advertise the fact that she is going to be sitting in a particular place, unprotected while she lays an egg is suicidal in the wild. Ground predators in particular watch where hens go to lay eggs and ambush them. I’ve lost a number of hens who have made the escort call but the cock has been unresponsive for some reason and they’ve moved form the designated site and the cock, when he got around to responding can’t find the hen.

The best cocks respond instantly; they fly to the nest site making I’ve heard you and I’m on my way calls.

A cock can’t do this for thirty hens, he would die of exhaustion the first day and that is why 3 to 5 hens per cock is the natural order. If you force a different arrangement then the system breaks down.

It’s exactly the same for humans. You can force groups of diverse people/strangers to live together and mostly they’ll cope but give them a choice and the arrangements change.

That’s the brief version.

 

[Snackdraggin]

Following. My flock mainly roosts in the coop but I have a few hens and a Turkey that refuse to and will inevitably break out to roost on my porch or nearby tree. Every morning they are back at the coop waiting to be fed. I have two roos that get along fine but wont roost together. During the day they seem to work together to keep the girls safe but at night they separate "their" girls and roost separately. I tried to force them but the stress was too much so I finally gave up and let them do their chicken thing; every one is happier now.

 

[centrarchid]

I have done as you describe over many years at multiple locations at same time. Breed was only one that is tops in ability to evade predators. For system to work, you need to be able to exclude the majority of predators most of the time. System works better when larger livestock also present.

 

[Mrs. K]

It really does depend on where you live. Where I live, with a over the top, totally fenced in coop that has been reinforced numerous times with a rooster on patrol...I have fed way too many predators.

 

[Shamo Hybrid]

The problem with this is............. where do you find the eggs?