Chicken-safe rat poison sought

[Birdinhand]

...For those of you that have used hardware cloth are your chickens completely enclosed in a coop/run situation? ...

I can't free range where I am due mostly to the fact that there are too many ways for it to go bad (children leave doors open, dog gets out, cayotes, coons, bald eagles, hawks etc). my inner coop, coop and run are completely enveloped with hardware cloth but if I expand further, I won't necessarily envelope the additional run(s). I think the key here is keeping the rats from getting to the feed and eggs, which means having the ability to close the door at night on a fortified "inner coop" where the feed is stored, where the food dispensers are located as well as the laying boxes. this inner coop needs to have no more than a 1/2" gap anywhere around the envelope, especially the door, so narrow to prevent an adult rat from getting in. a baby rat getting in would be a temporary situation and not worth worrying about too much, it is very unlikely to cause real issues. rats are mostly nocturnal until their population explodes and they become sloppy, they can have up to 22 babies every month or so and those babies can have babies within 6 weeks. if you are seeing healthy rats during the day it's a bad sign, IMHO, likely that they have an unlimited food source and are having a hay day. If you can close the door on a completely secure space in the evening and open in the morning, you will likely take care of the lions share of the problem. an automatic door makes this much easier. with large acreage there is no way to completely eliminate the rats and that is not my goal. my goal is to keep them out of the coop where the chickens eat and sleep and lay eggs, keeping the rat population down to a "normal" background level. actually I should also say that my #1 goal is keeping the rats out of my house, rats in the home cause severe issues and in that case I would happily resort to poison to swiftly eliminate every single one. I had a friend build a coop right next to her house and naively leave the food open and the feeding area accessible, by the time she noticed the stink coming from her walls it was too late, she had to get an exterminator that removed over 100 rats from her walls, they did a lot of damage and it cost a lot of money.

If I had more land and needed to secure a large area, I would just hardware cloth the area to be enclosed at night and run electric fencing around the perimeter to keep the other larger critters at bay.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I would not consider it my right to release vermin on some one else's land.

I agree with "lazy gardener" Driving around the neighborhood and dropping off varmints on others property is like an enemy dropping bombs on the neighborhood and this behavior is the most selfish thing that I can imagine. This is forcing your own beliefs on an innocent third party and it should be a criminal action.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

... I believe that even the Human Society frowns on relocation....

The Humane Society of the United States not only frowns on relocation of wildlife but they outright condemn everyone who keeps chickens in any manner as cruel ogres.

 

[Howard E]

More info for Vicki, Bonnie or anyone else who decides to live trap some rats and is then faced with that unfortunate "what now" scenario? How to snuff em. Short of taking them to a vet to be euthanized (which I have personally done with lab rats.....40 years ago....none lately) a home brew CO2 method seems to be the best option for use at home.

Works like this:

http://www.ratfanclub.org/euth.html

To help with the math, ratio of white vinegar to baking soda is 12:1 by volume. So if you could fit that Ratinator trap inside a 16 gallon clear plastic tote.....with lid.....you would be looking at about 2/3rd cup baking soda and 8 cups.....1/2 gallon of vinegar. Or to scale up to a 30 gallon trash can.......1 cup baking soda and 3 quarts of vinegar.

This is a multi-step process of 1: putting them to sleep (30% of the volume of air in the container is filled with CO2) then, 2: putting them down (100% volume of of tote is filled with CO2).

If you want to do a trial run without rats, put a small candle in the tote, then a small run of the soda / vinegar mix inside a quart sized fruit far, light the candle, dump in the vinegar, slap the tote lid on and see if the candle goes out. A pack of rats in a cage would suffer the same fate. They just pass out. Once they are out cold, then do the same thing again to finish the job. (again, you do that by replacing ALL air with CO2)

And remember, CO2 is heavier than air, so will sink to the bottom of the tub. Tub will fill up with CO2 as it would with water. But you do need the lid on to keep the outside air and CO2 in the tub from mixing.

BTW, while this is mentioned for rats, I see no reason why the same method could not be scaled up for use with coons, skunks, possums or any other animal caught in a live trap that you wanted to snuff, but did not want to resort to a firearm, drowning, etc.

 

[Howard E]

BTW, if you wanted to try this with limited expense, use the trash can trap method. Take a 30 gallon (or larger) garbage can......one you have a lid for......dump some dry oatmeal or other bait in the bottom.......leave rats a ramp to the top of the rim...outside only. They will jump in for the food, but then can't jump out. Once you have as many as you think you will get, slap on the lid and administer the gas. Dump out the remains and do that again.

 

[Vicki B.]

Howard I am not catching anymore in the trap and the food on the floor is still there after night so I am not sure what to think. I also am not sure why people make the assumption that I would take the rats that came to my property from the wild and I would drop them in a populated area or even in a farmers field! They went to an area miles from any homes or crops near a water source. They went back to the wild from where they came.I am going to kill them with poison now so that should keep everyone happy and keep me out of prison for rat relocating.

 

[lazy gardener]

I can't get to any location by car or foot that is not within a rat or other vermin's walking distance of an other person's home. And I live in a very rural area. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but... somewhere else, while being remote to the traveler is actually some other person's neighborhood.

 

[Howard E]

Vicki:

To give you some perspective on peoples objections to relocating animals, do a Google search for "dump animals in the country".

It has been a long held belief, and practice, for a very few urban dwellers to drive unwanted animals out to some rural area the country, open the door and dump them out. Motivations are plenty, but generally revolve around the recognition that for whatever reason, these folks are not in a position to care for the animals, yet see themselves as compassionate people and do not want harm to come to them, so rationalize that the best solution is take them to the country where the will be able to fend for themselves, or perhaps some kind soul will take them in and give them a happy life. They also see it as a cheap, easy out. Take these pets to a shelter and it may cost you money you do not have, plus that comes with the near certainty that the pets will be put down. So the animals get dumped.

Ironically, the compassionate person is either oblivious or unconcerned about what fate awaits these pets. Most are never able to fend for themselves, or if they do, it may be because they have reverted to a near wild state, which likely as not, means they pack up and have no concerns about attacking livestock. It is not uncommon to read of accounts here on BYC of stray dogs arriving to kill chickens. It may well be these are strays that were dumped. Or just as bad, the person who lives in the rural area, who if they want them, already have dogs, cats, etc......pets of their own choosing. They have no use for, or want to care for, these strays.....yet that is where they show up. So the responsibility of what to do about this animal is now left to that person to deal with. What was someone else's problem has been transferred to them. Care for them.......or perhaps shoot them? Although a lot of folks say that they think nothing of shooting a dog, in truth, that is something nobody really likes to do. So they become resentful of whoever it was who forced them to do it. The person who dumped the strays.

The same goes for predators that are trapped and relocated. What follows for them is not a happy life. Very few survive and if they do, and they seek food and shelter at someone else's property. Someone who has worked hard to eliminate rats, for example, and they perceive or believe that someone dumped them out for them to again be rid of, well, they resent it.

So basically, it is the Golden Rule.

A now funny (wasn't then) story may help. Back in the 1980's, there was a time when hog prices tanked. When a normal "low" price might have dipped as low as 30 or 40 cents a pound, prices dropped to as low as 5 to 10 cents. Anyone who attempted to take a 50 pound feeder pig and raise him to market weight of 225 or so would likely have lost over $100 per head. Indeed, a lot of folks did try to soldier on through that and a lot of them went bankrupt. So nobody wanted to feed out these pigs. But what do with them if you were stuck with 1,000 head? Shoot em?

One guy's creative solution was to load all his pigs up in a livestock trailer, drove them to town, parked the trailer on the town square and opened the gate. Turned them all loose in the middle of town to fend for themselves, which they did......rooting around in garbage cans, digging up flower beds, eating pet food left outside in bowls. It took a long time to find them all, and either round them up or shoot them, and send them to the landfill. His excuse was that people had been dumping stray dogs and cats on him for years........time for some payback.

 

[Vicki B.]

I am not relocating rats and they are not eating the " pet safe poison" so I am going to buy some regular poison and hope for the best.They won't go in the trap anymore either.

 

[Howard E]

Which "pet safe poison" (exactly.......what brand, type, etc) are they not eating?

And do you still have evidence of rats anyway? If so, do you have any idea what they are living on as far as alternative food sources go?