CHICKEN SWAPS OF NH SWAP LISTINGS

[Snakedoc]

Hi all,

Geez, I feel awful that I didn't post about this sooner. For some reason I thought that if I did so, it would be construed as "flaming" and I'd be banned by the mods.

Luckily, I don't think that any swaps have actually taken place in the interim, since the only one that I think would have gone down was cancelled due to weather.

At any rate, I was one of those "lucky few" who purchased potentially infected birds at one of the swaps. (My one and only ...) I was contacted by a (very nice) tech who works for NH Department of Agriculture informing me that the flock I'd purchased from tested positive for MS and MG. I stupidly (STUPIDLY) assumed that, because they were NPIP tested, they would be safe to co-mingle with my incoming hatchery birds, even though I had this "gut feeling" (or was it eight years of schooling and just as many years of breeding other communal species??) that told me that I needed to quarantine, no matter what the source.

Long story short (not), I spent the week in between my birds being tested and getting the results back looking sadly out at my new flock (having just gotten back into chickens after 10-odd years) with the knowledge that I would most likely have to humanely destroy all of them. Arguably worst of all, one of the two I purchased from the offending breeder had become my hands-down favorite -- so even in the off-chance that the disease hadn't spread, if they tested positive, she would have to be one of the culls.

I was very, VERY lucky. My two tested negative -- in the words of the tech, "Not really sure how that happened!" -- and I ended up getting NPIP certified as a sort of "bonus." It drove home that critical lesson about quarantine, though. That, and testing -- if you can test for a given disease, why wouldn't you? The tech informed me that hatchery birds are NOT all free of MS and MG and that those diseases are virtually endemic in NH, so it isn't a bad idea to get your flock tested for those diseases if you want to be truly safe. (According to the tech, it costs $1/bird, which is far cheaper than any other livestock disease testing that I know of.)

Anyway, just had to share/vent my story ... I am so very grateful that I DON'T have to cull my very favorite chicken. (Not to mention all those other birds -- I kinda like them, too

)

Now for the relevant part. Mods, I have read the rules and I truly hope that this is not construed as flaming. I feel the utmost sympathies for this woman that this is happening to her (though if she is the one still selling birds despite the quarantine, then my sympathies have now significantly diminished).

*Name deleted

Also -- to the director of the NH swaps, you ROCK for being so proactive and I feel so stupid and ****** at myself that I didn't inform you sooner. I (again -- STUPIDLY) assumed that the state of NH would have informed you, but it sounds as though that either wasn't the case or didn't occur soon enough. So, please accept my apologies for ASSuming that you already knew about this not insignificant issue!

 

[sandywesoja]

well after reading this you can pretty much see that this all did NOT start at this farm, but I was not as lucky as you in testing negative. And just to let you know I am NOT still selling and I'm am just devasted that this all happen to my birds as well and I really hope they find where the main source came from.

 

[Snakedoc]

I was informed via PM hat it was actually illegal for me to post this information as it is privileged and confidential. I was not informed this by the state, but by a member via PM; however, I think it is best to be on the safe side, so I have deleted the information from my original post.

I don't actually think it likely that I've violated any confidentiality laws, as the state never actually said to me, "XYZ person's flock tested positive for MS/MG." I am certain that they would not be allowed to do so -- that is where the law draws the "privileged and confidential line." I only inferred who it was because I only bought birds from one person. Nevertheless, I would always rather err on the side of caution.

@sandywesoja -- I originally refrained from posting your name not only because I was worried about breaking forum rules, but mainly because I just felt so bad that this was happening to you. I do know what it entails, and I did not think it was at all fair to call you out. I can't imagine how awful it must be to have this happen to an established and beloved flock. I only did post it last night because someone else wrote on this thread that there was someone still selling birds, and I happened to know where my birds came from. I was not trying to accuse you and I hope you accept my sincere apologies for posting your name in this context.

Moreover, please accept my deepest sympathies for what has happened to your flock. I don't know if it is at all any consolation, but because my birds did not test positive there are still at least two very healthy birds out from your flock that will be able to share their adorable genetics with the world.

As far as the original source -- the tech told me that it is close to "endemic" in backyard flocks in NH, which is pretty scary. I am not sure how common this is, but I don't think it at all impossible that it could be spread from one farm to another via visiting wild birds because it can transmit via fomites (not just bird to bird). Because that is the case, if somebody with an infected flock was handling your birds at a swap without hand sanitizing first, I think that could introduce it right there. (That is why one of the earlier posters who said that she does not allow visitors up her driveway is not being at all paranoid!) Still, since it is not required for NPIP testing, my guess is that someone just sold it into your flock, unfortunately (I would hope not intentionally or knowingly!).

 

[AVintageLife]

My understanding is the person selling infected poultry was at the Milford chicken swap on 3/30. Had her flock tested positive at that point and yet still participating in the swap and selling chicks? Thankfully I didn't buy any chicks from that source and we didn't handle anything there (and practiced good bio security when we got home). What are we to do? Backyard flocks can be tested and quarantined but people with poultry businesses may be less inclined to test because then they won't be able to sell. I guess I'll be hatching out my own chicks when I need them but that raises the question of purchasing fertile eggs. I've read that "vaccines can control an infection in a hen clinically but there is still the potential risk of vertical transmission to the egg and chick". Yikes.

 

[Snakedoc]

I suspect that there was more than one source at that swap. Also, I think that all of this came out a few weeks after the swap and was traced back to the source(s); AFAIK, nobody knew at the time that they were selling potentially infected birds. I know that I was not contacted until several weeks later.

I have struggled for the past month or so (ever since getting the call) with where to source my birds from here on out. Many of these diseases (including MS and MG) are indeed vertically transmitted so hatching eggs is definitely not a sure way to keep from buying the disease. Additionally, the tech informed me that they have found birds from some of the major hatcheries to test positive as well, so that isn't a sure bet either (and isn't even an option if you are looking for show-quality stock).

I think the best plan will have to involve a judicious mix of strict quarantine and testing.

 

[sandywesoja]

just to let you know not all of my birds tested positive, and I am still waiting for answers on how this all can be stopped. From what I understand there's no way to prevent it and no answers to why all of my flock is not infected, just some of them.

 

[vnsseed]

This is a nice little info packet on MS and MG, for anyone interested.

http://www.gapoultrylab.org/wp-cont...coplasma handout for Backyard Flocks 4-12.pdf

 

[blackbirds13]

Quote:
I thank you Sandy for being open and honest about this as this will only help all of us.

Mycoplasma gallisepticum (MG) and Mycoplasma synoviae (MS) and Infectious Coryza (IC) are considered "all in all out" poultry infections in many states (if not all). There are others. MG is transovarian so it will pass from the hen to the eggs so if you do a lot of eggs swaps and the like you are at risk just as if you brought in chicks.

The only way is to cull ALL the birds, disinfect and start over. None of these seem to last too long without a bird as a host, maybe a few days but I'm not sure on the duration of time you need to wait before it's really safe to introduce new stock and you really need to disinfect well.



If you test positive for IC or MG you are supposed to be under quarantine and cannot sell any birds or eggs period! If you want to sell you have to wait until the current flock dies completely with no new additions to carry on after or you can cull them and restart. ANY birds you bring in, until the former birds in total are culled, become part of that quarantine with no exceptions for any thing you think was hatched before a particular date or was separated by being in the house...etc. You cannot pick and choose or decide that this pen or that pen or this or that brooder is not affected. They all must go. Some folks may be excluding their hatchery chicks or some other chicks they deem safe but that is not supposed to be allowed. I have chicks in brooders that may not be affected but if I should test positive I will probably cull them also as no-one can ensure total bio-security has been met between the inside and the outside and it is what is mandated by the quarantine law, per what I was told by the state vet. If you have birds that test positive for either MG or IC and you keep any and continue to sell you are in violation of that. You do not have to dispatch your birds as was stated here or on the NH thread you just cannot let any leave for any reason no matter the age or their placement within your property. The problem comes when folks keep what they think is safe and continue to sell. Birds that recover will be carriers for the rest of their lives and likely infect any other birds you introduce. If I kept my chicks I would need to retest when they were older and be clean before I could start selling...folks may not be doing this and just assuming they have healthy birds, but it is an option . If your eggs however were exposed to MG all of that time and expense and emotion may be thoroughly wasted, and that is my personal concern with this option but it is a viable way to cut your losses. I've put aside some funds to buy some new chicks and eggs if I do have to restart but my losses will be costly to my pocket book and my heart ...the thought makes me sick to my stomach every time I allow myself to wallow too long with it.

So, to stop it unfortunately you have to dispatch the entire flock. Eggs, chicks and adults, especially with MG - all of them.... Eggs are fine for IC but not any' healthy' looking chicks and hopefully your brooder is not harboring anything. If folks are culling only part of their flocks or keeping some chicks they have in the brooder down in the basement or on a separate patch of land not totally connected to the infected coops, and the like, to help defray the cost of dispatching an entire flock or to enable an easy restart we are all going to be at risk for a good duration.
If I test clean

(and a thousand rosaries) I plan on closing my flock and hatching my own and only purchasing from breeders I've done business with before without having issues and my list is short for that one. If I test positive, after the heartache and a good pity party, I'll take some time to clean and disinfect and start over and consider this a lesson learnt the hard way. To handle this properly it will take honesty and ethical handling from everyone here with chickens.
On the plus side a negative MG test may be quite a plus for sales for those hesitating to do so.
Just my two cents on this.
Good luck to everyone.

 

[1Chick Magnet]

good news

The state is not testing for infectious coryza. this disease is well contained and under control.

 

[blackbirds13]

Are they testing all the vendors at the swaps or just some? Wouldn't they need to test everyone who sold there? How could anyone be sure that the person next to them or a couple stalls down is MG free if they chose to sell there? And would you need to be MG tested every year hence? From a business stand point what is feasible and would provide the best customer service in the end? and what makes good business sense?

In Maine I don't believe you even need to be NPIP at their swaps from their facebook page and they are just a border away.

I have spoken to a lot of people through all of this and a lot of folks see this a just a run of the mill issue for backyard breeders. I am so confused as to what is the best way to approach all of this. If many folks are not getting tested or contemplating culling their birds what sense does it make for anyone else to do so? If it is so prevalent why make it an issue at all? It just looks so nasty in the images I see - ICK!!!

I really would not want it in my flock or to give it to someone else but if so many people or places have it is this all just a case of amelioration to mollify and not nullify a disease that is somewhat invasive already?

I'm seriously rethinking and rethinking and rethinking my original position on this and wondering if I too have not been swept up in the emotion of it and not the realistic scope of this and a lot of other infections? I don't even look at cragslist the same way anymore, I wonder more so than ever what I could be inviting in and I sell on craigslist also.... I almost feel as if I'll be asking for an MG cert when I purchase chicks from here on in and I know how ridiculous that sounds but if it's so prevalent right now it this state why would I go out an buy chicks now...But so many folks are not on BYC and totally blind to all of this current affair.

To many thoughts in my head over this I fear, so sorry about another diatribe.