Chicken with odd scab on foot starting to smell rotten...

[Fluffy_Feathers]

I have a hen who got severe frost bite on her feet two winters ago. The dead tissue fell off and her feet healed fine. She now basically has two stumps and has been getting around okay all things considered, and hasn't had much of a problem health wise up until now.

Towards the beginning of this summer I noticed something that looked like a small piece of weird looking dead skin protruding and hanging off one of her feet. I decided to leave it alone and thought it would fall off naturally.

June comes around and it looked like an actual scab and it seemed to have gotten bigger. I was concerned but decided to leave it alone, still in hopes it would just fall off naturally. At some point between then and now it even started to look loose like it was going to fall off, but then it just reattached itself.
June 2nd

Now it is July and the scab has gotten bigger still, and it has now developed a dead smell. I don't think it is going to fall off, and I don't know exactly what it is or why it formed. I don't know why it is getting bigger and bigger.
Today (July 22nd)

There has been no change in how my hen has been acting, and she has continued to lay eggs. Does anyone have an idea about why this scab formed, and what it is exactly? Do I need to remove this scab myself, since it is starting to smell (I would assume so because it could cause an infection)? If so, how should I go about doing that? I've never cut anything off a chicken, or any living animal, before. Do I even need to cut it off or can I just... break it off?

 

[Vickischics]

I was reading your posts and replies from the various people. As a RN that loves wounds (I know, that's gross) I can relate the pictures that I am viewing to the chronic wounds I have seen in humans.
When a severe injury to a distal extremity happens such as frost bite, the degree to which the tissue was damage often leads to reoccurring problems. Just like the one you are having with a small black area on the limb that progressively become larger.

The recommendation of soaking in Epsom Salts was an excellent choice. The infusion of sodium to the necrotic eschar black tissue will naturally assist with the debridement of the hard Eschar tissue until it falls off or you remove it. Underneath will show a yellowish/greenish, sticky pus like base.
The Eschar is black and leathery looking such as in your pictures with the edges pulling away. The pulling away edges is the tissue underneath trying to rid the black Eschar scab.

That necrotic tissue is formed when healthy tissue dies and becomes dehydrated. This is a typical result of local ischemia from unrelieved localized pressure that will compress the soft tissue between a surface and the underlying bone or bony prominence. This will lead to an ulcer.
The underlying ulcer may be to a depth you do not know unless measured none the less, if there is any blood after the removal of the black Eschar scab, it WILL heal.
It does take time because it has to heal from the base of the wound upward. (from the deep inside to the outside)

Treatment for human ulcers is to keep the wound base moist, (Not the surrounding tissue) prevent tissue dehydration thus preventing the necrotic tissue cycle. The recommended dressing for this wound on a human is a Hydro gel dressing. It is made up of a starch polymer and 96% water and/or Honey impregnated dressings that contain a medical grade honey that has evidence to encourage healing, moisture and has shown antimicrobial/anti-inflammatory properties.

Keeping the area clean and dry with the addition of keeping the wound base moist will create a favorable tissue granulation environment. If you can find a way to secure and keep an occlusive bandage on her foot that would be a good start. IDK if they sale chicken booties like the ones they have for dogs feet. But, this would be ideal for the ulcer to heal.

The rest of the foot and leg appear to be healthy and pink in color. Gently messaging her leg always from the most distal end toward her heart is best. You can use coconut oil on her foot stump and up her leg.
She would most likely get use to you messaging her legs and really like it.

This is my 2 cents from a Nurse that loves Wounds and Ostomys.

Good Luck, I think your on the right road but, just needed a little extra human wound expertise to get her healed up. Please keep us posted.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

Hey guys, it's been a while and I know I said I would post another update soon, and I'm kind of overdue on that. My last post I said that the foot was almost completely healed... well, I was wrong. I thought it was gone but it wasn't, it started coming back. I've continued to fight it and was starting to loose hope. This foot and her other foot seemed to stop making progress. I had another hen, Maude, that got bumblefoot too and I was doing her as well, and I decided that when she gets cured (it wasn't as bad for her) then I will decide to be done with Quackers (the hen that has been the subject of this thread) if there is no progress and will put her down. When Maude got it, I decided to get some Tricide-Neo for them and have soaked them everyday. This appears to have gotten rid of the infection in Maude, though I am checking her everyday to be sure.

Because Maude's infection appears to be gone, last week I removed Quackers' scabs and, lo and behold, there was healed skin underneath! I was completely not expecting such progress and audibly gasped when I saw it. Now I know that the infection could still be there, I'm not making the same mistake twice, but both of her feet have healed skin, similar to Maude's. I'm continuing to soak her and am acting like the infection is still there until I know FOR SURE it is gone. But my hopes have been restored and putting her down is, as of now, off the table.

Because I now have two hens that got it on both feet, I am suspicious that they are not getting the proper nutrients or something, so I am going to try to fix that.

Anyway, I'm sure most of you won't get a notification of this post. I think it only notifies the last person to make a post or something. But I hope this helps anybody that comes across this thread who is trying to beat bumblefoot.

 

[coach723]

Is vet care an option for you? In this case I think it might be best. I'm a little concerned that what you thought was bit of weird skin protruding could have possibly been bone, due to the previous injuries to the feet and how she walks on them. If there is infection in the bone it would be serious. It also could be bumblefoot, but the rotten smell has me concerned that it's more. I'm going to tag some others to see what they think. If vet care is not an option then I would soak the foot, and treat like bumblefoot, and see what it looks like cleaned up, but lets see what the others may have to say.
@Wyorp Rock , @Eggcessive , @casportpony

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Update #3 Unpleasant Images
Today I got the scab off! After the soak I was working on it and realized I was going to have to be more forceful. I was able to get it loose, but the cartilage looking stuff wasn't coming loose so I had to cut it. There was some remaining scab so I got that off as well. I sprayed Vetericyn in the wound (whether it helps or not it couldn't hurt) and put Triple Antibiotic in the wound and wrapped it. I feel bad for her because I know it hurt getting it off and it's tender now, but I'm glad it's finally off now. (this isn't meant to be red, for some reason I can't change it to black)

I finally got pictures of what's actually under it!
View attachment 2262140View attachment 2262142
I don't know much about wounds or what "healthy" vs infected looks like so sorry if it's quite obvious but... does this look infected? No puss or discharge came out, and that liquid you may have noticed in the wound was just water. That white stuff is the cartilage I had to cut. It seems okay to me, but I'm not confident in my assessment.

I also got some pictures of the detached scab. It's irrelevant now but I figure some of you may be curious It looks like it actually got smaller from the soaking. That white stuff is the embedded cartilage.
View attachment 2262154View attachment 2262155View attachment 2262157

I'm very happy to get it off. I do have a couple questions: Should I continue with the Epsom salt baths? Should I wash it out daily with plain water?

Comments? Questions? Concerns?

Fantastic! Thanks for the photos too
No, I don't think it looks infected!

I would check the wound daily and clean as needed. Keep her on clean dry bedding.
You may find that you eventually need to do daily soaks or soaks every other day to help with the healing process. A lot depends on how it progresses.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

So quick update + picture. Her feet are still looking very good. I think I will keep bandaging her for a couple more days and if they are still looking good and have healed a bit more, I may be able to stop bandaging her and see how she does. If that goes well I'll keep soaking her for another week or two and hopefully she'll be good.

Here's a picture I got tonight of the one foot. She's really come a long way.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Is vet care an option for you? In this case I think it might be best. I'm a little concerned that what you thought was bit of weird skin protruding could have possibly been bone, due to the previous injuries to the feet and how she walks on them. If there is infection in the bone it would be serious. It also could be bumblefoot, but the rotten smell has me concerned that it's more. I'm going to tag some others to see what they think. If vet care is not an option then I would soak the foot, and treat like bumblefoot, and see what it looks like cleaned up, but lets see what the others may have to say.
@Wyorp Rock , @Eggcessive , @casportpony

I agree, if Vet care is an option that would be good.

I will give my 2¢ I am not a vet or expert, but looking at the initial photos of when this sort of started, I would have been more inclined to think that was debris (poop/dirt) accumulating in a crevice of the foot. Could be a scab too, hard to know.
Over time, it could be a buildup of hardened debris - it almost looks "crumbly" like a poop ball and a "corner" if you will, has "broken" off.

First photo I'm pointing to the "pocket", in the second photo pointing to the crumbly looking "stuff" along with what looks "broken" to me. Circled the other foot so OP can also take a look at that foot, I see a black spot(?)

If going to treat at home, I would be inclined to soak well in a warm epsom salts bath, then gently start working on seeing if the whole thing will loosen or if it will soften and come off in chunks. If it's still fairly intact after the first soaking/working on it, I would apply a generous amount of neosporin/triple antibiotic ointment, working it around the edges, apply small well fit gauze pad and wrap the foot with vet wrap. Leave alone overnight, then see what happens the next day - try soaking/working on the "scab".

Again...vet care is best and that's my 2¢

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thank you so much. I see what you mean, I never thought it would be build up. I'm hoping that's what it is instead of a bone infection. I forgot to mention in my earlier comment that vet care is probably not an option.

That black dot on the other foot I saw as well, it just showed up today. It is just a scratch and some blood, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on that though.

I could be totally wrong, it could be bone infection or even if it is debris that's hardened in there it's possible that the skin is infected underneath all that. You just don't know unless you take a look.

If you work on it, have someone take some photos - yes, I probably have a morbid curiosity, but photos are also educational to me and others that are here on your thread and that may read it in the future as well.

 

[micstrachan]

Just throwing in my 2¢, as well. I think it looks like bumblefoot, but agree the smell is concerning. I’d be tempted to do the soak and neosporin to soften it up and see if anything comes off with gentle rubbing. Of course, as the others have said, and Avian Vet would be best, if that is an option.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

Update #2
Today I did the same thing as I did yesterday. I soaked her, and I was able to do so for a full hour this time. It's slowly but surely coming more loose! The base is coming up from the skin and I can just see the flesh underneath through a small hole. I still put Vetericyn on it, if anything just to keep it soft, as well as triple antibiotic. I bandaged it and will repeat tomorrow. The bottom of the scab is pretty packed in from her walking on it, so it's having a hard time coming loose.

In this picture you can see the hole. It appears that the cartilage looking stuff is going to come out with the scab. The base is also starting to look like that of a bumblefoot scab, so thank you guys for the info on bumblefoot!

She is continuing to act normal and is active. I had to let her out of her cage for a while so she could go lay an egg, and she wasted no time; she had to lay it badly!

Today I'm cautiously optimistic. Everything continues to look okay, save for the gigantic scab. I hope I can get the scab off tomorrow, or at least the next day.

I do have a question though. When I get it off, there's probably going to be a big hole. Should I just wrap it like I have been doing, or do I need to do something else?