Chicken Xperts. . . I Need feather help!(pics) . . UPDATE!!. pg.3

farrier! :

This is the best I could come up with right away.
Yhttp://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/213302.htm

Here is the text from the link

Chronic selenium poisoning

Chronic selenium poisoning usually develops when livestock consume seleniferous forages and grains containing 5-50 ppm of selenium for many weeks or months. Naturally occurring seleno-amino acids in plants are readily absorbed. Until recently, 2 types of chronic selenium poisoning were recognized—alkali disease and blind staggers. Blind staggers is no longer believed to be caused by selenium but by sulfate toxicity due to consumption of high-sulfate alkali water. Excess sulfate (>2% of diet) leads to polioencephalomalacia and the classical signs of blind staggers. Animals consuming milk vetch ( Astragalus bisulcatus ) have demonstrated clinical signs similar to blind staggers. Although milk vetch contains high levels of selenium, evidence now indicates that the alkaloid swainsonine in milk vetch, responsible for locoism, produces the signs.
Clinical Findings:
Alkali disease has been reported in cattle, sheep, and horses. Affected animals are dull, emaciated, and lack vitality. The most distinctive lesions are those involving the keratin of the hair and hooves. The animal has a rough hair coat and the long hairs of the mane and tail break off at the same level giving a “bob” tail and “roached” mane appearance. Abnormal growth and structure of horns and hooves results in circular ridges and cracking of the hoof wall at the coronary band. Extremely long, deformed hooves that turn upwards at the ends may be seen. Subsequent lameness is compounded by degeneration of joint cartilage and bone. Reduced fertility and reproductive performance occurs especially in sheep. Reproductive performance may be depressed with a dietary level of selenium lower than that required to produce typical signs of alkali disease. Other lesions may include anemia, liver cirrhosis and ascites, and atrophy of the heart.
Birds also may be affected with chronic selenium toxicosis. Eggs with >2.5 ppm selenium from birds in high selenium areas have low hatchability, and the embryos are usually deformed. Teratologic effects include underdeveloped feet and legs, malformed eyes, crooked beaks, and ropy feathers. This has been a problem with waterfowl in southern California, where selenium was leached by agricultural water and concentrated in lakes by runoff.
Blood levels of selenium in chronic cases are usually 1-4 ppm. Other changes in blood include decreased fibrinogen level and prothrombin activity; increased serum alkaline phosphatase, ALT, AST, and succinic dehydrogenase; and reduced glutathione. Hair may have >5 ppm selenium in chronic poisoning. A “garlicky” odor on the animal’s breath may be noted.
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Treatment and Control:
There is no specific treatment for selenium toxicosis. Eliminating the source and exposure and symptomatic and supportive care of the animal should be started as soon as possible. Addition of substances that antagonize or inhibit the toxic effects of selenium in the diet may help reduce the risk of selenium toxicosis. A high protein diet, linseed oil meal, sulfur, arsenic, silver, copper, cadmium, and mercury have reduced selenium toxicity in laboratory animals, but their use under field conditions is limited. Addition of arsenic salt at 0.00375% to enhance biliary excretion of selenium or use of a high-protein diet to bind free selenium may help reduce incidence of selenium poisoning in cattle.
Soil and forages should be tested regularly in high-selenium areas.​
 
mwdh1, thanks for posting. I was able to access the link and it fits my conditions, with a few strange variable circumstances thrown in. I'm going with this as an explanation of things, chickens and others, that occurred around here. It confirm a lot suspicions. We'll just have to wait until the molt, to tell for sure.
 
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My understanding, based on the information I am putting together, is this was the problem. It looks like the damage was done several months ago, back in November/December, but upping the protein and some environmental changes, prevented more serious problems. Feather development was affected, but it didn't appear, until the feathers started going through the wear and tear in the life of a chicken. The older birds weren't affected as much, because there feathere were through growing (just my own theroy). Only a couple of the 14 month olds went through a "mini-molt". Nobody has done a full molt yet. Except my bantams. It explains why my bantams show no symptoms: they have already done a full molt and have new feathers that have grown since the problem took place. I am positive there are no mites, or lice. Sounds a little obstinate on my part, I know, but I REALLY checked these guys over. Several times. Day and night. BIG FLASLIGHT. 10 million candle power. I could have found fleas on a black cat in coal mine easier. I was getting ready to kill off poor Bob, just to get a better look at him. I worked on a ranch in NM, that had a mite/lice problem while I was there, so I know what I am looking for and where they hide. Pull off a piece of wood in a coop and there they are. Spread the feathers enough times and one will show up. I would have loved to have found mites on my chickens, or hiding in the cracks, instead of spending hours trying to find another solution. That would be an easy fix. Hey, this is all just my theroy of what is going on, but nothing else fits this well, so far. I'm going with it, for now. Thanks for putting some thought into this for me. I really appreciate it.

Ooooh. So you're thinking the selenium interfered with biotin uptake?
Sorry, my curiosity is piqued now. Very interesting case.
 
Ooooh. So you're thinking the selenium interfered with biotin uptake?
Sorry, my curiosity is piqued now. Very interesting case.

It seems to be the most plausable explination.

Our growing season down here ends around the beginning of October. If your going to eat greens, what's left by then, is all you're going to get. Some plants have a higher uptake of selenium, than others. Some plants uptake minerals, that inhibit the toxic effects of selenium. Let's say the chickens eat the inhibitor content plants first (more tasty?). When those are depleated, they start in on the 2nd choice greens. Maybe, these are high selenium content plants. If they have both available, things stay in balance. Our water also contains a lot of dissolved copper. Another inhibitor. I know this, because when I add chlorine to my hot tub, the copper oxidizes and turns the water the color of Mountain Dew.
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Extra protein, also binds with selenium, to help shed it from their system.

OK, now we're into November and all the inhibitor plants are gone, the chickens are chowing down on the leftover, not so tasty selenium rich veggies. They ate the inhibitor containing plants last month. I have well problems in November. Water problem gets sorted out, but it seems like a good time to chlorinate my well. Maybe the oxidized copper, cause by the addition of chlorine, doesn't bind with the selenium as well, to remove it from the animals' systems. I don't know.

About December, I get this sorry looking hen turn up. Feather problem. They must need more protein. I up the cat food and BOSS, since they are good sources of quick protein. About this same time, were into short winter days, less time free ranging, no more edible high selenium plants and the chlorine is finally out of my water system. Water soluable copper back is to normal, lots of extra protein in the diet and lack of selenium rich plants returns the chickens back to a balanced system, but the damage to growing, high protein requirement tissues is already done. I hatch some eggs in February and March. Things go well.

Later on in the year, feathers fall apart, as the chicken gets older and wears them out. Damaged feathers don't last like good ones do.

Hey, I'm just a carpenter. If you think I'm all wet on this, I'll be happy to let you know, after they molt.
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farrier! :

Boy did you do your homework!
I am impressed!!!!!

I couldn't have done it without your help. Just hope I'm right.
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