Chickens and Hog Feed ????

[TracyLovesDucks]

We're talking about excess protein in the manure...

Thanks for sharing these articles, georgeto. It gave me a brief sweep over how proteins are converted, and how excess proteins are handled. But the second and third articles leave a gap in your argument because we're switching between talking about birds and mammals (humans more specifically in the wiki article)... where the birdpee article says there's a big difference in that humans produce urea while birds produce straight ammonia. I suppose if the livers of humans and chickens function the same otherwise, then we could assume that excess protein intake for a chicken results in the same effect that humans experience, but without converting the ammonia to urea; "Deamination converts nitrogen from the amino acid into ammonia, which is converted by the liver into urea in the urea cycle." And that may be right that it's the same process for humans and chickens. All I'm trying to say is that these articles don't directly link excess protein intake in chickens to excess ammonia excretion in their droppings.

On another note, I've always heard that only a ridiculously low amount (like 30%) of nutrients in chicken feed are bio-available to the chicken eating it. I don't have any real research to back that claim, but it makes sense to me considering that grains have a high level of "antinutrients" (like phytic acid) which are known to block absorption in humans (yes, I see I'm comparing humans and chickens, but like I said, I don't have the research, this is just a very underdeveloped theory). If this is the case, then wouldn't it be possible that the chicken isn't even getting the whole 16% of protein in the layer pellets?

 

[19disbre]

Thanks for sharing these articles, georgeto. It gave me a brief sweep over how proteins are converted, and how excess proteins are handled. But the second and third articles leave a gap in your argument because we're switching between talking about birds and mammals (humans more specifically in the wiki article)... where the birdpee article says there's a big difference in that humans produce urea while birds produce straight ammonia. I suppose if the livers of humans and chickens function the same otherwise, then we could assume that excess protein intake for a chicken results in the same effect that humans experience, but without converting the ammonia to urea; "Deamination converts nitrogen from the amino acid into ammonia, which is converted by the liver into urea in the urea cycle." And that may be right that it's the same process for humans and chickens. All I'm trying to say is that these articles don't directly link excess protein intake in chickens to excess ammonia excretion in their droppings.

On another note, I've always heard that only a ridiculously low amount (like 30%) of nutrients in chicken feed are bio-available to the chicken eating it. I don't have any real research to back that claim, but it makes sense to me considering that grains have a high level of "antinutrients" (like phytic acid) which are known to block absorption in humans (yes, I see I'm comparing humans and chickens, but like I said, I don't have the research, this is just a very underdeveloped theory). If this is the case, then wouldn't it be possible that the chicken isn't even getting the whole 16% of protein in the layer pellets?

To all arguing about where extra protein goes: It is used to grow body mass, "Extra" Protein either grows muscle or Fat

Tracy was exactly right "On another note, I've always heard that only a ridiculously low amount (like 30%) of nutrients in chicken feed are bio-available to the chicken eating it. I don't have any real research to back that claim, but it makes sense to me considering that grains have a high level of "antinutrients" (like phytic acid) which are known to block absorption in humans (yes, I see I'm comparing humans and chickens, but like I said, I don't have the research, this is just a very underdeveloped theory). If this is the case, then wouldn't it be possible that the chicken isn't even getting the whole 16% of protein in the layer pellets?"

Not sure about the 30% number but you are correct only a portion of nutrients are Bio-Available. Fermenting, Sprouting, Crushing, all make these more bio available which is why feed is ground not just a blend of whole grains.

The more we "Digest" feed for the animal the more bio available it is

 

[r-dale]

I mix all my own feeds, and all have been tested in labs and in the field. Grower or finish hog feed is almost the exact same mix as broiler ration, so much so that when I make too much of one or lack of another I'll mix the two together. Say I'm running low on broiler finish I'll cut their feed 1/2 their real feed and 1/2 hog finish. Layer is different so I don't cut their feed as the same I stick to the strict diets for the young animals. But folks almost all poultry or livestock feed is made out of the same basic ingredients. The only differance being the proportions of the ingredients and the trace suplements, and that is just not which animal, it is also stage of life and use of that animal. But for a fact broiler feed that I mix or you buy from your feed mill is almost the exact mix as hog feed.

 

[19disbre]

good, I start feeding my broilers pig feed tonight, I ordered two tons but my pigs will only eat 1.5 or less

I will cut it with 1/4 chicken feed, These birds have 5 days until butcher

For 3 week-olds I think I will go half and half slowly changing to more pig than chicken feed

For chicks I will still feed them chick starter until the are 3 weeks or so

 

[pdirt]

Before expelled soybean meal became widely available as a protein supplement, dehydrated buttermilk was the baby chicken feed of choice. I still like to give my new chicks buttermilk as their first fluid. Besides numerous people (myself included) give their chickens yogurt and I have never noticed it giving them the stomach ache or a bad case of flatulence.

You just said it was better not why. The pig feed will be deficient in methionine and calcium. In sitting the pig starter feeds will hanger milk sugars which the chicken typically can not digest.

Lazy J - I know you know this already but am only naming this as a clarification for folks who may not know...

Chickens cannot digest milk sugars, such as lactose. It's similar if you've ever known anyone who is lactose-intolerant. However, chickengeorgeto said that dried buttermilk used to be in chick feed. This would be a very good protein source, because buttermilk has far fewer milk sugars left. Buttermilk is a milk product yes, but it has been fermented and the fermentation process breaks down most of the milk sugars. Any soured milk product (sour cream, yogurt, kefir, buttermilk, clabbered milk, etc.) will still have some milk sugars left, but most of them have been changed by the fermentation process. In other words, don't feed your chickens unfermented milk, but okay to feed some fermented milk product as a portion of their protein intake.