Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Beekissed]

It sounds just like mine and it's all good, IMO. If you run your hand through it the bottom is full of a silty, soft grain residue of a flour consistency, but I've noticed that it doesn't mount up so badly that it fills the reservoir. The yeast bacteria there seem to consume it enough to keep it at a steady, constant level of being.

I think this is why the two bucket of the same size system is so successful in keeping everything regulated so nicely. As you add feed and water to the top bucket the water level raises and the highly cultured water in the bottom bucket rises throughout the feed mix to inoculate the whole mass.

As the feed absorbs the liquids and the new powder from the new feed added sinks to the bottom, it feeds the bacteria in the bottom bucket reservoir with fresh sugars. Thus keeping a very rich mother mix in the bottom that is highly populated and is getting fed regularly but is never depleted, only added to.

I think this keeps the number of yeasts at a constant level and so one doesn't get too much ferment or have to wait for the feed to ferment due to having too little cultures in the water.

 

[NikkiMiChickie]

Ok, thanks Bee. Even though I thought it was good, it's always nice to have reassurance from someone else

 

[NikkiMiChickie]

Question for a friend:
She received 13 free BOs in July from a friend of my dad's. I didn't want to mess with flock mixing, and I'm glad I didn't. Her birds are supposed to be less than a year old (probably a year old now though) and they've hardly laid since she got them. The most she's ever gotten were 4 or 5 eggs - and then back down to the usual 1-2 eggs. Recently, she's down to one layer, she can tell by the egg that it's the same hen laying every day, but has no idea which hen is laying it. She's ready to cull and get chicks in the spring, and I think she may take my little cockerel that just hatched. She's planning to cull only the birds with pale combs, and let the "healthy looking ones" stay on for winter, then see whether the laying picks up in spring. They haven't molted either, so the age estimate is probably right I'm thinking. I'm sure these are hatchery birds. They look nothing like dragon lady's!

Suggestions that I can pass along to her about choosing which birds to cull? I'm afraid she's going to kill her one and only layer if she doesn't separate them into dog crates or something to narrow it down. Hopefully BOs taste good!

 

[delisha]

Question for a friend:
She received 13 free BOs in July from a friend of my dad's. I didn't want to mess with flock mixing, and I'm glad I didn't. Her birds are supposed to be less than a year old (probably a year old now though) and they've hardly laid since she got them. The most she's ever gotten were 4 or 5 eggs - and then back down to the usual 1-2 eggs. Recently, she's down to one layer, she can tell by the egg that it's the same hen laying every day, but has no idea which hen is laying it. She's ready to cull and get chicks in the spring, and I think she may take my little cockerel that just hatched. She's planning to cull only the birds with pale combs, and let the "healthy looking ones" stay on for winter, then see whether the laying picks up in spring. They haven't molted either, so the age estimate is probably right I'm thinking. I'm sure these are hatchery birds. They look nothing like dragon lady's!

Suggestions that I can pass along to her about choosing which birds to cull? I'm afraid she's going to kill her one and only layer if she doesn't separate them into dog crates or something to narrow it down. Hopefully BOs taste good!

Have her do a swab test on the hens. Free birds usually are birds that have been exposed to some disease. It would answer the question why they are not laying.

 

[mrsamplias]

Do you all who feed fermented feed find this article true?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19373724

Br Poult Sci. 2009 Mar;50(2):228-39.
Fermented feed for laying hens: effects on egg production, egg quality, plumage condition and composition and activity of the intestinal microflora.
Engberg RM, Hammershøj M, Johansen NF, Abousekken MS, Steenfeldt S, Jensen BB.
Source
Faculty of Agricultural Sciences, Department of Animal Health, Welfare and Nutrition, Aarhus University, Tjele, Denmark. [email protected]
Abstract
1. An experiment with a total of 480 hens (Babcock) was carried out from 16 to 38 weeks of age to evaluate the suitability of wet fermented feed (feed water ratio, 1:1.2-1:1.4) for layers, taking aspects of nutrition and gastrointestinal health into consideration. The production performance, egg shell quality, plumage condition, litter dry matter (DM) content, as well as the composition and activity of the intestinal microbial flora were analysed. 2. Fermented feed was characterised by a high concentration of lactic acid (160-250 mmol/kg feed) and a moderate level of acetic acid (20-30 mmol/kg feed), high numbers of lactic acid bacteria (log 9-10 CFU/g feed) and a pH of approximately 4.5. Feed fermentation reduced the concentration of dietary sugar from 32.1 to 7.3 g/kg DM and the phytate bound phosphorus from 2.7 to 1.9 g/kg DM. 3. Fermented feed seemed to loose attractiveness for the birds quite rapidly, resulting in a more aggressive behaviour and a poorer plumage condition than in birds given dry feed. The use of fermented feed reduced the litter DM content. 4. During the experimental period, the body weight gain of hens receiving fermented feed was 80 g higher than of hens fed the dry mash. Presumably because of an extended adaptation time to the feed, the onset of lay occurred later when hens were fed on fermented feed, resulting in non-significantly reduced total egg production (75 vs. 82%). 5. There was no significant difference between groups with respect to the total egg mass production (g/d/hen, 42 and 45 for fermented feed and dry mash, respectively). Throughout the experimental period, the feed DM intake of hens fed with fermented feed was lower than that of hens receiving the dry mash (110 vs. 125 g). From week 26 to 37, fermented feed improved the feed conversion as compared with the dry mash (g feed DM/g egg mass, 2.28 vs. 2.53). 6. The use of fermented feed increased egg weight in the period from 34 to 37 weeks (61.4 vs. 60.0) and increased shell weight (g/100 g egg weight, 10.2 vs. 9.9) and shell stiffness (N/mm, 161 vs. 150) of eggs collected at 37 weeks. 7. The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter. 8. It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary.
PMID: 19373724 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Publication Types, MeSH Terms, Substances

LinkOut - more resources

This is an interesting observation. We hear about the national crisis of childhood obesity, how children today have such a high intake of sugary foods, and that the onset of puberty begins at younger and earlier ages. For a parallel in the animal world, it makes sense that if you reduce the sugar intake for chickens, you will delay the maturity of the chickens and the chickens will begin to lay later.

We have RIR, and thanks to this thread, they have been on the FF for 2 months, or so. They are approx. 20 weeks and have not begun to lay, but are healthy and happy, and eat really very little feed. They roam our yard, and are outside all the time. Here, in temperate So. CA, the worst we get is a little rain, and they love being outside in the rain, eating all the worms and bugs. I am content to have healthy chickens that will have a later onset of lay, and nominal feed costs!

 

[Mountain Momma]

What Bee said!! I will NEVER go back to unfermented, dry feed! I know my gals right now are just 'hatchery mutts' but they are the healthiest, shiningest, purtiest durn hatchery mutts you can lay your eyes on!

And the monetary savings are fantastic - they eat half of what they ate dry and there is ZERO waste of feed.

I feel good about doing the ff. I am using a little less feed, not quite 30 % less but noticeable. My chickens are c onsistant layers and healthy and active. They have missed a respitory illness they were exposed to recently and only 1 or two have messy bottoms, but its not very messy only a little bit. My chicken poo is nice and firm with none of the flock leaving messy poo. This is the biggest difference I've noticed. Before ff the majority had wet poo. The chickens are hatchery so after seeing all the beautiful chicken pictures I'm a little dejected on how mine look overall. I am on a dusty road and the run is dusty so I dont notice the shine as much but they are always dust bathing too. Their colors are brighter and their eyes are also bright. The eggs are heavy with very solid shells. Some people tell me they have a hard time breaking my eggs because the shells are so hard. The yolks are large and bright orange with firmness. The whites dont run.

I have 23 chickens now and 2 roos. I get 14-17 eggs per day. I have one young leghorn that stopped laying and never started again. Two old girls that nearly stopped laying when the temp dropped and I see 1 -2 eggs each a week from them. One has a very pale comb and has had a pale comb since I got her. Those three are my problem girls but they are active and healthy otherwise.

My biggest complaint is my BO, Honey, and one of my PR have a bald saddle area that has been like that for about a month. The PR is not getting better and growing in at all and the BO is growing in but super slow.

Over all the advise I've gotten from BEE and Bruce and Al and others has helped me stave off the problems my friends seem to be having. I walked my friend's coop the other day. She has a heat lamp to keep the water from freezing and at this time keeps the windows closed too much. We talked about ways to predator proof the windows and leaving them open all the time. We also talked about a crock pot to keep the water from freezing because the coop is too warm. I also made a diagram and copied Bruce's recipe for ff. She has had one sick chick and a respitory problem this fall. Sick chick is her problem and we plan to cull this month if no serious improvement. She used antibiotics to cure the respitory thing and it made sick chick worse. I think sick chick has a yeast infection in her body. So ff will help her a lot once she gets it up and running. My other friend is adding another 50 to her flock because she cannot supply enough eggs to her markets. She will end up with 100 chickens. She likes her naked neck the best, a daily layer. She has a varmit stealing eggs and cannot catch him. She has caught a bunch of birds and squirrels though. She is getting her new chickens from Murry Mcmurry hatchery. She doesnt do anything do assist diet except organic feed. She sells her eggs to organic markets and farmers markets. She would really benefit from ff but does not seem to be interested.

I'm really glad that there was not a serious outbreak of the chickens...I forgot whose they were but I was pulling for you on that!

L

 

[NikkiMiChickie]

Question for a friend:
She received 13 free BOs in July from a friend of my dad's. I didn't want to mess with flock mixing, and I'm glad I didn't. Her birds are supposed to be less than a year old (probably a year old now though) and they've hardly laid since she got them. The most she's ever gotten were 4 or 5 eggs - and then back down to the usual 1-2 eggs. Recently, she's down to one layer, she can tell by the egg that it's the same hen laying every day, but has no idea which hen is laying it. She's ready to cull and get chicks in the spring, and I think she may take my little cockerel that just hatched. She's planning to cull only the birds with pale combs, and let the "healthy looking ones" stay on for winter, then see whether the laying picks up in spring. They haven't molted either, so the age estimate is probably right I'm thinking. I'm sure these are hatchery birds. They look nothing like dragon lady's!
Suggestions that I can pass along to her about choosing which birds to cull? I'm afraid she's going to kill her one and only layer if she doesn't separate them into dog crates or something to narrow it down. Hopefully BOs taste good!

Have her do a swab test on the hens. Free birds usually are birds that have been exposed to some disease. It would answer the question why they are not laying.

Swab test? Like a vet would do for mange on a dog? You'll have to fill me in on how to do this (and what to do with it once I've swabbed them?)

I've also been considering whether space is an issue. Now, I know that chickens living in battery cages are extremely overcrowded and seem to produce just fine... But maybe they supplement their feed somehow? To me, her coop is too small for the number of birds she has, although I have no measurements to let you know how small "small" is. That's part of the reason she plans to butcher some of her non-layers, in hopes that they will feel more comfortable. She free ranges on occasion, but not every day, all day like many of us do here.

Thanks, delisha, and anyone else who pipes in

 

[thedragonlady]

Question for a friend:
She received 13 free BOs in July from a friend of my dad's. I didn't want to mess with flock mixing, and I'm glad I didn't. Her birds are supposed to be less than a year old (probably a year old now though) and they've hardly laid since she got them. The most she's ever gotten were 4 or 5 eggs - and then back down to the usual 1-2 eggs. Recently, she's down to one layer, she can tell by the egg that it's the same hen laying every day, but has no idea which hen is laying it. She's ready to cull and get chicks in the spring, and I think she may take my little cockerel that just hatched. She's planning to cull only the birds with pale combs, and let the "healthy looking ones" stay on for winter, then see whether the laying picks up in spring. They haven't molted either, so the age estimate is probably right I'm thinking. I'm sure these are hatchery birds. They look nothing like dragon lady's!
Suggestions that I can pass along to her about choosing which birds to cull? I'm afraid she's going to kill her one and only layer if she doesn't separate them into dog crates or something to narrow it down. Hopefully BOs taste good!

If those are hatchery BOs they were probably hatched in Jan-April of last year. Have they ever been wormed? Do they have bugs? Are they in a mixed flock? What is she feeding? Are they confined to a small coop and run? Usually the hatchery BOs are pretty good layers.

 

[Mskayladog]

I know this has been answered but I can't find it.

Can you use layer crumbles to ferment? How about feed mill layer food, its nothing like store brought layer food. The consistency is more like crushed bird seed.

 

[delisha]

Quote: It is a kit you get at the vets office. You open it and swab the inside of the chickens mouth, reseal it and send it off to the ST vets lab. The cost is not that bad..about 12.50 and worth it if she is planning on introducing more chickens.