thebirdguy
Songster
I have never seen a hen with tight pelvic bones that was actively laying.. We have always used it as a sorting tool at processing time to keep the hens that were laying in the hen house and not in the freezer..
Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!
- Thread starter Beekissed
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Thebirdguy, is that your barn/place in your avatar? If so, it is stunning!!!
thebirdguy
Songster
No it isn't my barn... it is just up the road a few miles in Swan Valley.. On a good day you can see the Tetons from East Idaho, I worked at Jenny Lake Lodge at the base of the Tetons during college and think they are gorgeous... hence my avatar... great old barn with the Tetons in the background...
Yes, that thread is very good. Proof that "natural" worming doesn't work.
As for your question, the tight pelvic bones only mean a hen isn't laying right then. I learned that myself this winter while checking my hens. (somehow that sounds stupid lol) All the ones not laying, even ones that were laying and stopped due to molting or winter or whatever, had pubic bones almost touching, where previously they were 3 or more fingers apart. When they started back up, the space reappeared.
Oh galanie, I am so glad to hear confirmation of that! I just knew that my Australorp couldn't be totally done laying, I actually suspect that she may be carrying the highest parasite load. I decided to go with SafeGuard for this initial worming, because my research shows that it is just as effective as Valbazen for the specific worms that my girls have, and is a little cheaper. However, if later stool samples show that they need worming for the same thing (highly likely), I will be buying Valbazen so I can alternate between the two wormers (said to keep the worms from developing a tolerance or resistance to one or the other drug). I am so thankful for this forum, there is so much wisdom shared here!
And thebirdguy, I too love your avatar photo. MANY MANY moons ago I attended a summer course in Jackson, WY, it was 6 weeks of heaven.
- Oct 15, 2010
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We are New to Silkie Chickens. We want to hatch. PLEASE OT offer your suggestions.
We plan to put 2 hens and one rooster in a cage. When eggs are there, candle them
to see if they are fertile.
Then place the fertile eggs under a broody hen. YES? Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks Regards, Aria
We plan to put 2 hens and one rooster in a cage. When eggs are there, candle them
to see if they are fertile.
Then place the fertile eggs under a broody hen. YES? Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks Regards, Aria
In my experience, candling is not effective until the eggs have been incubating for at least 5 days. That's when you can see the blood spot and veins throughout the yolk. If your rooster is doing his job, you will have fertile eggs. I can't tell you how long the rooster needs to be with the hens before they are fertile. Hopefully someone else will chime in on that. If you want to hatch on a certain schedule, you're better off getting an incubator rather than waiting for one of your hens to go broody, as there is no guarantee to when or if that will happen. I do understand that silkies do have a tendency toward broodiness, though, so you could luck out there.
I got the chickens dosed with the SafeGuard for worms. I was surprised to discover that the chickens that were tamest and easiest to catch were the hardest to dose. The Red Star, who is always happy to walk right up to me and be held, fought like crazy when I tried putting that eyedropper in her mouth. I was really afraid I might break her neck the way she was thrashing around. On the other hand, the two RIR's who ALWAYS require the hook for catching very calmly took their medicine with no fight at all. Go figure....
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Quote: I don't find that to be proof whatsoever....maybe proof that someone is not pairing natural deworming with the other things that make this type of deworming effective. Even Salatin pairs his natural deworming of his cattle with judicious culling and breeding for parasite resistance. Anyone serious about natural animal husbandry is going to take the time to choose breeds with natural resistance, select from those breeds in the flock who thrive on natural methods, cull those that do not and then breed for animals that carry that natural resistance along to their offspring.
One cannot just throw some herbs at a group of animals and then pronounce it doesn't work if the whole flock or even ANY of the flock just doesn't do well with those methods. If I tell you that I've never seen worms in any of the chickens I have killed and ate...and that is a full on plenty...that were raised with all natural methods, does this mean that it proves that it DOES work? Probably this would not be conclusive evidence for you. You would want to try it. But...if you also didn't spend years developing and refining your flocks to suit your methods, you probably would find that you too would state that "natural" deworming doesn't work.
There is more to natural husbandry than what you throw down an animal's throat or what you spread on their backs. If you want an easy method to raising some chickens, then buying something off a store shelf and placing it in the water seems like the best route for you. If you want to grow animals that don't HAVE to be given medicine in order to live out a year, then you want to put in a little thought and deliberation into your husbandry practices.
Easy methods pay off for short term results.
A little less easy, more thought, more planning....well, that pays off in the long run and in the long run it gets easier and easier.
You'll never see me posting how my whole flock got wiped out with some disease~has never happened and I don't attribute that to luck, but to hard won hardiness in my flock. You'll also never see me posting about my whole flock or any of it, getting wiped out in a predator attack because I've free ranged...I've taken the not so easy route so that my long term predator program is assured. I didn't just turn out my birds and cross my fingers that they will be safe...I've paired my free range with several safety measures.
I use the free range example because it is much like the natural deworming...someone throws some birds in the back yard, doesn't fence them with perimeter fencing, doesn't offer protection in the form of a dog or other protection animal, doesn't give them anywhere to hide, no rooster to give a warning....then they will come on the forum and emphatically state that they tried it, lost their birds in a tragic predatory attack and would NEVER free range a chicken again and anyone who does obviously doesn't care about their birds. I've seen those kind of posts over and over on this forum and each time it makes me want to scream.
With natural deworming, one has to use multiple approaches. Some of these include: Free ranging your flock. Culling for non-thriftiness(poor condition, performance, etc.). Multiple natural methods/sources of deworming(garlic, soap, wood ashes). Offering probiotics like UP/ACV to improve digestive and intestinal function and health. Non-medicated feeds always, from day one. Deep litter in the coop, summer and winter. No disinfectants for the equipment or housing. Good, whole grains and freshly milled feeds instead of prepackaged, pelleted feeds from bags that have been milled for some time and sitting in warehouses awaiting delivery.
Proof that I have done it properly is in the fact that I don't show up at the vet with a sick animal. That I don't even know what the symptoms of coryza are, nor any of the other diseases. I've never even researched them for educational purposes. Why? Because I don't intend to have them in my flocks....and I simply work on my husbandry until every bird is a picture of good health. Period.
You might just say I've been lucky but I believe in my husbandry methods and I feel that it isn't luck...it took determination to get there. Luck is when you do nothing and get good results. When you actually put time and effort and get good results, it should simply be called "successful". Calling something like that luck is like saying an Olympic gold medal winner is merely lucky.
One cannot just throw some herbs at a group of animals and then pronounce it doesn't work if the whole flock or even ANY of the flock just doesn't do well with those methods. If I tell you that I've never seen worms in any of the chickens I have killed and ate...and that is a full on plenty...that were raised with all natural methods, does this mean that it proves that it DOES work? Probably this would not be conclusive evidence for you. You would want to try it. But...if you also didn't spend years developing and refining your flocks to suit your methods, you probably would find that you too would state that "natural" deworming doesn't work.
There is more to natural husbandry than what you throw down an animal's throat or what you spread on their backs. If you want an easy method to raising some chickens, then buying something off a store shelf and placing it in the water seems like the best route for you. If you want to grow animals that don't HAVE to be given medicine in order to live out a year, then you want to put in a little thought and deliberation into your husbandry practices.
Easy methods pay off for short term results.
A little less easy, more thought, more planning....well, that pays off in the long run and in the long run it gets easier and easier.
You'll never see me posting how my whole flock got wiped out with some disease~has never happened and I don't attribute that to luck, but to hard won hardiness in my flock. You'll also never see me posting about my whole flock or any of it, getting wiped out in a predator attack because I've free ranged...I've taken the not so easy route so that my long term predator program is assured. I didn't just turn out my birds and cross my fingers that they will be safe...I've paired my free range with several safety measures.
I use the free range example because it is much like the natural deworming...someone throws some birds in the back yard, doesn't fence them with perimeter fencing, doesn't offer protection in the form of a dog or other protection animal, doesn't give them anywhere to hide, no rooster to give a warning....then they will come on the forum and emphatically state that they tried it, lost their birds in a tragic predatory attack and would NEVER free range a chicken again and anyone who does obviously doesn't care about their birds. I've seen those kind of posts over and over on this forum and each time it makes me want to scream.
With natural deworming, one has to use multiple approaches. Some of these include: Free ranging your flock. Culling for non-thriftiness(poor condition, performance, etc.). Multiple natural methods/sources of deworming(garlic, soap, wood ashes). Offering probiotics like UP/ACV to improve digestive and intestinal function and health. Non-medicated feeds always, from day one. Deep litter in the coop, summer and winter. No disinfectants for the equipment or housing. Good, whole grains and freshly milled feeds instead of prepackaged, pelleted feeds from bags that have been milled for some time and sitting in warehouses awaiting delivery.
Proof that I have done it properly is in the fact that I don't show up at the vet with a sick animal. That I don't even know what the symptoms of coryza are, nor any of the other diseases. I've never even researched them for educational purposes. Why? Because I don't intend to have them in my flocks....and I simply work on my husbandry until every bird is a picture of good health. Period.
You might just say I've been lucky but I believe in my husbandry methods and I feel that it isn't luck...it took determination to get there. Luck is when you do nothing and get good results. When you actually put time and effort and get good results, it should simply be called "successful". Calling something like that luck is like saying an Olympic gold medal winner is merely lucky.
I think what you are saying Beekissed is that if one wants to use natural deworming methods than one has to consider the lifestyle of the animal? That is, if you want to pair non medication has a preventive than you cannot have the maximum number of birds warehoused in the smallest possible space?
A natural approach to raising livestock must begin with the conditions that animal will live in and proceed in an orderly fashion... correct?
I do see time and time again that people try to use more intensive practices that are totally at odds with the animals inherent ability to withstand parasites and such. It just seems strange to me... I would love to avoid the use of wormers, however my property is too small to support the number of hens I currently have, thus wormer is a necessary evil.
It sounds terrible when I type it out like that, however... the parasite load in the soil is what it is.
A natural approach to raising livestock must begin with the conditions that animal will live in and proceed in an orderly fashion... correct?
I do see time and time again that people try to use more intensive practices that are totally at odds with the animals inherent ability to withstand parasites and such. It just seems strange to me... I would love to avoid the use of wormers, however my property is too small to support the number of hens I currently have, thus wormer is a necessary evil.
It sounds terrible when I type it out like that, however... the parasite load in the soil is what it is.
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