Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[mohillbilly]

in 30 years of raising chickens I have yet to worm one ....shoot my dogs and cats don't have them either . now don't get me wrong I don't do the natural thing that you all are talking about other than culling any sickly or weak growing birds.

 

[flagirl]

Beekissed-question. I have 11 hens that i let free range for 3 hrs in the afternoon. i have a 12 yr old lab mix that cannot be out when they are{she is not happy with the new additions). I have about 1/2 of my 5 acres fenced and was wondering if i should add a rooster for predator protection. my hens are probably 1/12 to 2 years old and only had a rooster with them a short time about a yr ago. I got them several months ago from a friend who could no longer have chickens. they are comprised of 8 rr, 2 bo and 1 br

 

[ejb3810]

Flagirl, what is it that you believe a rooster would protect your hens from ? In my experience, which is substantial, about the only thing a rooster can protect hens from is another rooster. Not from dogs, hawks, coyotes, racoons, mink and etc. He may offer an alternative food source for actual threats to the hens, but that is doubtful.

 

[galanie]

I don't find that to be proof whatsoever....maybe proof that someone is not pairing natural deworming with the other things that make this type of deworming effective.  Even Salatin pairs his natural deworming of his cattle with judicious culling and breeding for parasite resistance.  Anyone serious about natural animal husbandry is going to take the time to choose breeds with natural resistance, select from those breeds in the flock who thrive on natural methods, cull those that do not and then breed for animals that carry that natural resistance along to their offspring. 

One cannot just throw some herbs at a group of animals and then pronounce it doesn't work if the whole flock or even ANY of the flock just doesn't do well with those methods.  If I tell you that I've never seen worms in any of the chickens I have killed and ate...and that is a full on plenty...that were raised with all natural methods, does this mean that it proves that it DOES work?  Probably this would not be conclusive evidence for you.  You would want to try it.  But...if you also didn't spend years developing and refining your flocks to suit your methods, you probably would find that you too would state that "natural" deworming doesn't work. 

There is more to natural husbandry than what you throw down an animal's throat or what you spread on their backs.  If you want an easy method to raising some chickens, then buying something off a store shelf and placing it in the water seems like the best route for you.  If you want to grow animals that don't HAVE to be given medicine in order to live out a year, then you want to put in a little thought and deliberation into your husbandry practices. 

Easy methods pay off for short term results. 

A little less easy, more thought, more planning....well, that pays off in the long run and in the long run it gets easier and easier. 

You'll never see me posting how my whole flock got wiped out with some disease~has never happened and I don't attribute that to luck, but to hard won hardiness in my flock.  You'll also never see me posting about my whole flock or any of it, getting wiped out in a predator attack because I've free ranged...I've taken the not so easy route so that my long term predator program is assured.  I didn't just turn out my birds and cross my fingers that they will be safe...I've paired my free range with several safety measures. 

I use the free range example because it is much like the natural deworming...someone throws some birds in the back yard, doesn't fence them with perimeter fencing, doesn't offer protection in the form of a dog or other protection animal, doesn't give them anywhere to hide, no rooster to give a warning....then they will come on the forum and emphatically state that they tried it, lost their birds in a tragic predatory attack and would NEVER free range a chicken again and anyone who does obviously doesn't care about their birds.  I've seen those kind of posts over and over on this forum and each time it makes me want to scream. 

With natural deworming, one has to use multiple approaches.  Some of these include:  Free ranging your flock.  Culling for non-thriftiness(poor condition, performance, etc.).  Multiple natural methods/sources of deworming(garlic, soap, wood ashes).  Offering probiotics like UP/ACV to improve digestive and intestinal function and health.  Non-medicated feeds always, from day one. Deep litter in the coop, summer and winter.  No disinfectants for the equipment or housing.  Good, whole grains and freshly milled feeds instead of prepackaged, pelleted feeds from bags that have been milled for some time and sitting in warehouses awaiting delivery.

Proof that I have done it properly is in the fact that I don't show up at the vet with a sick animal.  That I don't even know what the symptoms of coryza are, nor any of the other diseases.  I've never even researched them for educational purposes.  Why?  Because I don't intend to have them in my flocks....and I simply work on my husbandry until every bird is a picture of good health.  Period. 

You might just say I've been lucky but I believe in my husbandry methods and I feel that it isn't luck...it took determination to get there.  Luck is when you do nothing and get good results.  When you actually put time and effort and get good results, it should simply be called "successful".  Calling something like that luck is like saying an Olympic gold medal winner is merely lucky. 

I can certainly see what you're saying. The statement I made was more aimed at those who will find that, for instance, garlic helps and then run out, give them garlic, and pronounce the birds worm free. Or hot pepper. Or even both. You appear to have a great system going there!

 

[ChickChickChicky]

Beekissed, I'm glad that your method works for you, but because I live in town there is no way that I can free range my birds, hence I've resolved to myself that I will have to chemically worm them since they are forever destined to live on "contaminated" soil. And so culling chickens that developed worms would also be impractical (and really expensive!) for me, while for you who has a large area and can breed your own replacements it is feasible. Everybody's circumstances and set-ups are different so will require different approaches. I'm glad that you have shared what works for you, because I'm sure that there are others who have circumstances similar to yours who can profit by the information. For now, anyway, my dreams of living on a farm are just that, a dream, so I have to work with what I have.

 

[midway]

I am a newbie here and I really appreciate this thread. Thank you to Beekissed for starting it and to all of the OT's for taking the time to share their wisdom and experience. It took me awhile, but I have just finished reading the entire thread. So much great information! Thank you again!

 

[Beekissed]

Flagirl, what is it that you believe a rooster would protect your hens from ? In my experience, which is substantial, about the only thing a rooster can protect hens from is another rooster. Not from dogs, hawks, coyotes, racoons, mink and etc. He may offer an alternative food source for actual threats to the hens, but that is doubtful.

I agree. Roosters will rarely be effective in fending off more than a cat or a snake, if that. Roosters are most effective for free ranging when they are vigilant enough to call a warning to the hens when the hawk is first sighted and hopefully in enough time to give them a chance to duck and cover. I've seen this over and over and it is one good addition to the free range safety system....any hen that doesn't listen to the roo and gets snatched(never had it happen yet) I would consider her a victim of natural selection and thank God she isn't going to be carrying her genes on down the line.

That is also one of the reasons I like flighty birds. Everyone else seems to think that is an undesirable trait and it just may be if you are looking for birds you can cuddle. I don't. I look for birds that can run away from danger, even if it is only perceived danger. I like my gals to be a little jumpy. I have two pair of red tails, one on either side of me. I also have a pair of osprey and the occasional bald eagle, not to mention plenty of barn owls, great horned owls, barred owls and various smaller breeds of hawk.

A flighty bird in my neighborhood is a live bird.

For the folks who live in towns...if you have even a little property or yard with your house, you can have a very cheaply made and lightweight tractor that can help you give your birds fresh turf on which to eat and live. I lived on a 1/2 lot in town some years ago and that is exactly how my birds lived. In the coop at night, under rabbit cages and on deep litter. Out each day in the tractor and moved frequently each day. With a tractor, you have only to move them exactly one tractor width to one side or the other to give fresh ground...takes awhile to cover a yard in that manner and by the time you get back to the starting place, your grass has grown, the soils have been refreshed by the rain and you have successfully free ranged in a small way. Your yard will benefit from it and your chickens will also.

I have never officially dewormed a chicken in my life, nor has my mother. Oh, every once in a while I might throw some soap in the water or some garlic juice...but rarely, like an afterthought when I've got it out and using it on another species. Mostly my natural deworming is performed on my sheep and cows. I've just never had an issue with worms in chickens.

As for culling birds when you have a small flock...having one or two hens isn't going to lend itself to a sustainable flock paradigm, so it doesn't really matter. One can't really cull and breed for anything when having a few hens, so it doesn't really apply. It's not like you plan on having your flock for years and are trying to have top egg production...you just want a few eggs until your hens can't do it anymore. Not much to work with there and I don't think anyone really expects much under those circumstances.

I'm not saying everyone has to do natural husbandry...just why I do it and how I do it successfully. It takes commitment to an ideal and then working out ways to get it. If it's that important to you, then you find a way. Otherwise, it is much cheaper to just buy your eggs from the store. The reason I do an all natural program is to separate my eggs and meat from what is produced commercially...if I just keep them in the backyard but still use commercial methods to house, feed and care for their health, what exactly have I gained? Just some expensive eggs and meat that have the same quality of those in the store and I have also spent a lot of valuable time I didn't need to waste.

At least, that's my take on the subject and it certainly doesn't mean I'm shoving my methods down anyone's throat, but merely explaining why they are so important to me.

 

[Gypsi]

Well, I'm looking for an in-between path between natural and the reality of the coop / run. My present coop and run aren't movable. My dogs do a good job of deterring predators when they are out, and the smell of them deters predators when they are in the house. I had a dog with an eye and taste for chicken. He was an old mini dach. He was put down after his 3rd bird, a newly laying hen. (first 2 were younger pullets) I have a young dog I wouldn't trust 30 seconds with a hen. It isn't the kill, it's the play. She tries to pick my cats up by their necks now and then. (no cat fatalities). It would be fatal to a chicken though.

so dogs and birds take turns in the yard. I will be adding another run / coop on my fenced lot once my gates are secure, one of them isn't even up yet. It also has 6 ft privacy fencing. But the birds will not run free on it, adding beehives (tasty chicken treat there), and the dogs aren't allowed there. (they also eat bees.)

I've wormed my hens once. (got them as chicks March 2nd 2010, 2nd bunch as chicks 10/22/2011)

While they weren't laying this winter, and I wormed my young pullets at the same time. All seem to be quite healthy. And one of my young pullets has some real flashy tail feathers, so I think I have a roo. He perches on the highest perch in the run with the best view of everything and just observes. I really enjoy this thread. Just wanted to say thank you.

Gypsi

 

[Beekissed]

Gypsi, I had to laugh when you said your dogs eat bees!!!! That's so funny....I have a dog that would eat bees, I think, but I have to wonder now if that is where my bees all went.....

 

[Gypsi]

If your dog has half the bee appetite that 2 of mine have, you could have your own personal CCD. My bees were hitting the holly bushes last march, and my G.Shepherd / Border collie and rott mix, both tall, were side by side, eating the bees off the bush. I fenced them out of that area, then finally moved the bushes out of the back yard. Except for tall trees all my bee forage is in the other 3/4 of my lot.

Gypsi