Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[mississippifarmboy]

Some of the very best keepers of quality, heritage, 75 year old lines have never shown them and never intend to. I don't show, never have, and never likely will. Having some purebred, heritage birds, for ME, is about appreciation of a type, a style, a look, a character, a biological art-form. Something to do with my grandmother is mixed in all this, but I cannot necessarily articulate it all. Something about my own heritage, not just the bird's heritage. I understood exactly what therapydoglady was saying above when talking about her family's Doms.

I'm geeked over some heritage birds I now have for about the same reason Mississippi Farm Boy is geeked over his new heritage RIR. Don't want to put words in his mouth, but we've come to a place in life where we ask, "Why not?". I don't drink, play the lottery, don't gamble, I've travelled enough to last a life time, so I've no plans for any big trips, I live a near subsistence, "plain" and "simple" lifestyle, so heck. Why not have a late in life hobby that pleases me?

You are so right Fred.

I'm the kind of guy who would never leave the farm if I didn't have to. I've been there - done that, and have figured out I'm not a people person. Just don't like most people. I prefer my quiet simple life here in the middle of nowhere USA. I have a big garden, the chickens, rabbits, ducks, geese, a good milk cow... just don't need much and want less. The phone, TV and internet are just luxuries to me. I spent most of my life trying to get as far away from here as I could, and now I am back living on the family farm and have no plans to leave again ever.
Most of my chickens are just livestock. Meat, eggs, fertilizer and bug control. Make a little money on the chicks, started birds and eggs. Not getting rich, but I pay the feed bill and a bit to put towards other bills. Get good fresh milk and butter from the cow. Can and store hundreds of items a year out of the garden. I like my chickens, but they are just chickens.

Then there are my RIRs. Not a day passes that I don't pause during my chores and think "Wow!". They are beautiful. I enjoy just looking at them, watching them. I'm looking forward to spending the rest of my life working with them, breeding and culling, learning and studying them. So yeah... I'm pretty geeked. lol

BTW, although I've been raising chickens all my life I'm a total newbie at raising SOP quality birds. Every day I learn more. Mainly how little I know.

 

[Beekissed]

I hear you............. but I think Bee is surely a much better choice to get that certain advice from, she raises hers to go through a nuclear war and still lay an egg a day for 30 yrs before they have had enough. Bee's goal is to be sitting at the last supper when the end of the world is in sight and be eating the last fresh chicken on earth, caught up from out back and cooked up finer than a Sundeey pullet. Yup that's Bee's flock, we should actualy name her line of birds for her, maybe a contest LOL.

Very funny, Al.

That's payback for making fun of you playing chicken dress up, isn't it?

Bee's flock would be aptly named the Mountain Cur line...the Heinz 57 strain. You know, that heritage breed that is derived from pure backyard persistence and poverty. Our motto? "If they ain't layin', they ain't livin'...literally." Big boned~ but not fat~ hens... and roosters that know their manners. They live on sour vinegar and fermented feed so their meat and eggs will be sweet. The drunkest flock in the mountains!

Maybe I'll start my own breed called The Hillbilly.....

 

[Fred's Hens]

This is a drive by post...still have chores to do. This bird has a pretty big fault. the lower breast is flat as a board. Rocks should have an underline that is bowl shaped...roundish and here we have this flat spot just before the legs. This is not for appearance, that is where organs reside. This bird is showing a lack of capacity to correctly house some important body parts. Could be why it placed second. Schilling usually corrected some of that in his drawings/photo's, but maybe this guy wanted to show it the way it was. She is kind of crow headed too...better stop before I pick it totally apart.

Can ya see it Fred?

Walt

Walt, here's another famous photo. The rooster shown seems to hold his tail a bit high in angle, but I don't know if this is an interpretive drawing or a photo. Although, far be it from me to be too fussy over arguably the most famous Barred Rock "father" of all time, Mr E.B. Thompson's ringlet line. This drawing shows a lot of hens, which is a bit more rare, because most photos/drawings/paintings from that era tend to focus on the cock birds. I can see deeper, fuller breasts in this drawing's hens.

I have 14 descendants of these very birds. So, this is where I'll be starting, next spring. Like MississippiFarmBoy said, even after a life-time doing chickens, what I know about this, going forward, wouldn't fill a thimble. But, we need a learning/growing/stretching challenge, even in retirement, right?

 

[NotAFarm]

Quote:




Play? Play? This isn't playing......this is serious.......didn't you read Al's post.........it's a matter of life or death!!

BTW, although I've been raising chickens all my life I'm a total newbie at raising SOP quality birds. Every day I learn more. Mainly how little I know.

Well said MFB

 

[fowlman01]

Play? Play? This isn't playing......this is serious.......didn't you read Al's post.........it's a matter of life or death!!





Well said MFB

No sense writing what Al has already written. Nothing I can add to that. Breeding to the SOP is a long term deal. I am not a particularly patient man, but over the years I have learned that my hobby will have both advancements/successes and it can just as easily go backwards on you if you are not vigilent and committed.
It only takes two years to completely destroy a line/strain of birds. The first year is OK then it hits the fan in the second year if you are just putting these birds together without regard to what you might get. I am talking about people mating up birds as opposed to a free range flock allowed to sort out what is best by itself. The ideal in our birds is to have them meet the SOP description, produce eggs or provide meat or just be ornamental like some of the bantam breeds. I want my birds to get close to the Standard and close is all anyone is going to get. The advanced step is to make them look like they were cloned and lastly so good that no one can go out and buy a bird that will beat you. For any who don't already know this, people who can't breed good birds buy the birds and in some cases they are shipped directly to the show. People here on the west coast buy birds from the east. The people in the east buy birds from us here in the west......hahahah.....kind of strange.

Thanks for the post Al!

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Walt, here's another famous photo. The rooster shown seems to hold his tail a bit high in angle, but I don't know if this is an interpretive drawing or a photo. Although, far be it from me to be too fussy over arguably the most famous Barred Rock "father" of all time, Mr E.B. Thompson's ringlet line. This drawing shows a lot of hens, which is a bit more rare, because most photos/drawings/paintings from that era tend to focus on the cock birds. I can see deeper, fuller breasts in this drawing's hens.

I have 14 descendants of these very birds. So, this is where I'll be starting, next spring. Like MississippiFarmBoy said, even after a life-time doing chickens, what I know about this, going forward, wouldn't fill a thimble. But, we need a learning/growing/stretching challenge, even in retirement, right?

The female is 20 degree's and male should be 30 degree's. Put your finger over the illustration right next to leg that is back and you will see a 45 degree tail on this guy. Nice tail though. It is nice to see that all the females are different and that you had two examples (foreground) of the underline to compare to the first illustration.

This has been a great hobby for me. I have met a lot of really nice people.

Walt

 

[NotAFarm]

Quote:
Walt, Thank you for these lessons.....it's the kind of thing that we need more of.

Quote: Please don't stop.....by you telling us what we see, we'll be better equipped to know what we are looking for. Like Fred, I'm a visual person and this is soooo helpful.

 

[MoonAngel12]

Quote:
This is so me. I've never been a people person... one on one is OK, crowds have sent me into panic mode before. I force myself into it, but it's not always enjoyable. Maybe that's why chicken's as a hobby and potential future lifestyle is so appealing? I'm still plenty young so who knows where I'll be in 10, 20, 30+ years. At this point I'm not even sure the route I want to take. Obviously with a handful of little ones under foot I can only do so much at this stage in my life, but I have something to look forward to now b/c I doubt I will ever re-join the work force. I was raised a city girl all my life, but I'm pretty sure this is where I was meant to be. I'm not sure which route to take in the future though - breeding for SOP or more along the lines of Bee's goals. It's been great to hear the different sides of it. Definitely something to think about for the future. Right now I just have some hatchery birds with a few BLRW from a "breeder" that are looking a bit shabby (and likely all cockerels the best I can tell) - 6 of my 9 were gifts though after a disastrous year with chicks so I'll take what I can get from such kind friends I know I don't have to make any major decisions right now, but I've got the desire to do something more... I just wish I knew what that was. I guess being a stay at home mom for the last 5 years, with many more ahead of me (those also being spent homeschooling) I'm looking for a bit of quiet reprieve for myself every now and then. The kids enjoy the chicken's too though (minus the 5 Golden Comets that would "attack" them - now gone to a friend of ours) and I can also see 4-H being in our future. Decisions decisions...

Any thoughts on what should be my next step at this point?

 

[MoonAngel12]

Fred (I believe it was) - can you post a pic of the "pinched tail" you mentioned vs. what you would rather see? I'm pretty sure I know what the former looks like based on my hatchery "RIRs", but not sure the latter. I can picture a wide, fluffy butt, but not the actual curvature of the tail (and who knows if the wide, fluffy part is even true, could be way off base). I'm sure I've seen it, just never paid much attention (gaining a whole new appreciation for form on this thread!).

 

[Fred's Hens]

Fred (I believe it was) - can you post a pic of the "pinched tail" you mentioned vs. what you would rather see? I'm pretty sure I know what the former looks like based on my hatchery "RIRs", but not sure the latter. I can picture a wide, fluffy butt, but not the actual curvature of the tail (and who knows if the wide, fluffy part is even true, could be way off base). I'm sure I've seen it, just never paid much attention (gaining a whole new appreciation for form on this thread!).

Again, I'm a farmer, not a fancy breeder, so my advice isn't worth a plug nickel, frankly. This is all pretty new to me, that is, breeding toward an objective standard. All the breeding we've done over the years is subjective. What we like or don't like. But something practical needs to be said about all this. Some folks sort of dismiss the whole objective goal thing as fussiness and eye candy. Actually, in their wisdom, many of the developers of the breeds we all love, the True OTs, had very solid reasons for some of these things.

You heard Walt say earlier that the front line needs to have lots of room, in a Rock, for the bird's organs. Now THAT is something important. It's not just fussiness, but practical. I like a wide rear end simply because I believe they lay better quality eggs. Not a stitch of science on that, just a life of experience. A pullet with a tail all pinched in, a very harrow butt, has usually laid some skinny, little eggs. Just sayin'. Too fuzzy a butt and you'll have fertility issues. Breeding, while aiming at a SOP isn't about being fussy, nor about showing, for ME, but about respecting the wisdom of folks from a century ago, folks who gave us these birds. I just think there is some value in respecting the elders of the past, that's all. I'm not much of a modernist, as you can probably tell.

There are a dozen threads started here everyday with the question by a newbie, "What breed is my bird?" People DO want to have some sense of identity. The truth is that guys like Walt and Al probably want to scream, "A MUTT!!!" because the birds usually shown are so very, very, very off. So, Al and Walt don't bother with those threads for their own sanity, I reckon.

And.... once again this disclaimer. I have lots and lots of hatchery grade mutts. Love 'em. They've served their purpose well. But this thing stirring inside MississippiFarmBoy, Therapydoglady, Dragonlady, myself and others is about something else, I guess.

OK, I gotta go to work in the gardens. We've a lot of our personal economy riding on a good harvest, but this year has been brutal.