Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Beekissed]

X2 So glad no MG!!! Bad micky mojo stuff.

Let us know how your birds go with the treatment?

 

[Maven]

X2 So glad no MG!!! Bad micky mojo stuff.

Let us know how your birds go with the treatment?

x2!

 

[Mskayladog]

Do you all who feed fermented feed find this article true?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19373724

Br Poult Sci. 2009 Mar;50(2):228-39.
Fermented feed for laying hens: effects on egg production, egg quality, plumage condition and composition and activity of the intestinal microflora.
Engberg RM, Hammershøj M, Johansen NF, Abousekken MS, Steenfeldt S, Jensen BB.
Source
Faculty of Agricultural Sciences, Department of Animal Health, Welfare and Nutrition, Aarhus University, Tjele, Denmark. [email protected]
Abstract
1. An experiment with a total of 480 hens (Babcock) was carried out from 16 to 38 weeks of age to evaluate the suitability of wet fermented feed (feed water ratio, 1:1.2-1:1.4) for layers, taking aspects of nutrition and gastrointestinal health into consideration. The production performance, egg shell quality, plumage condition, litter dry matter (DM) content, as well as the composition and activity of the intestinal microbial flora were analysed. 2. Fermented feed was characterised by a high concentration of lactic acid (160-250 mmol/kg feed) and a moderate level of acetic acid (20-30 mmol/kg feed), high numbers of lactic acid bacteria (log 9-10 CFU/g feed) and a pH of approximately 4.5. Feed fermentation reduced the concentration of dietary sugar from 32.1 to 7.3 g/kg DM and the phytate bound phosphorus from 2.7 to 1.9 g/kg DM. 3. Fermented feed seemed to loose attractiveness for the birds quite rapidly, resulting in a more aggressive behaviour and a poorer plumage condition than in birds given dry feed. The use of fermented feed reduced the litter DM content. 4. During the experimental period, the body weight gain of hens receiving fermented feed was 80 g higher than of hens fed the dry mash. Presumably because of an extended adaptation time to the feed, the onset of lay occurred later when hens were fed on fermented feed, resulting in non-significantly reduced total egg production (75 vs. 82%). 5. There was no significant difference between groups with respect to the total egg mass production (g/d/hen, 42 and 45 for fermented feed and dry mash, respectively). Throughout the experimental period, the feed DM intake of hens fed with fermented feed was lower than that of hens receiving the dry mash (110 vs. 125 g). From week 26 to 37, fermented feed improved the feed conversion as compared with the dry mash (g feed DM/g egg mass, 2.28 vs. 2.53). 6. The use of fermented feed increased egg weight in the period from 34 to 37 weeks (61.4 vs. 60.0) and increased shell weight (g/100 g egg weight, 10.2 vs. 9.9) and shell stiffness (N/mm, 161 vs. 150) of eggs collected at 37 weeks. 7. The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter. 8. It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary.
PMID: 19373724 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Publication Types, MeSH Terms, Substances

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[Beekissed]

For the most part, yes. Albeit we don't have controlled settings in our flocks nor do we do all the calibrations and proofs to determine wt. gains, egg weight increases, etc.

We do, however, notice the following:

• that they need less feed to stay in good condition
• that good conditioning is achieved quicker than on dry feeds
• that the egg productions have increased and egg yolks are consistently larger for each and every bird producing~and that this changes quickly when birds are put back onto dry feeds for a week or more. When this is done, it is reported that egg production immediately has a sharp decrease and coop starts to smell due to undigested proteins in the feces.
• quicker and better recovery from molt with better feathering has also been noticed~some report better lacing, more color, more sheen, thicker feathering altogether than they've ever seen
• less grain matter is showing in the feces
• less smell in the feces
• healthier looking, more firm feces
• the dog no longer eats the feces and this could indicate that the protein levels apparent in former feces is being utilized by the birds now instead of passing through the intestines unabsorbed
• better intestinal health has been noted in those fighting with gleet issues, runny stools, etc.
• higher energy/activity levels noted in all flock members but notably in chicks~ along with quicker feathering out, no pasty butts, quicker growth and wt. gains
• unlike the study done in this experiment, our flocks adapted to the FF quickly and take to it like it was caviar when not given a choice of dry..and those given a choice still show that most are reporting preference for the FF over dry, regular feed rations.
• waterfowl are having the same good results as chickens
  

 

[delisha]

I would agree with the study done. It confirms that feeding FF is beneficial. he only thing I disagree with is the benefit of feeding the FF to chicks. Chicks eat more food and less foraging material, so the savings of feeding FF has value. It does increase feathering, quality feathering. That alone is worth the extra work.

 

[galanie]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that one of the studies you read, Bee, before you ever starting using Fermented Feeds?

 

[Beekissed]

I would agree with the study done. It confirms that feeding FF is beneficial. he only thing I disagree with is the benefit of feeding the FF to chicks. Chicks eat more food and less foraging material, so the savings of feeding FF has value. It does increase feathering, quality feathering. That alone is worth the extra work.

I agree! Not to mention that they need that cultured yeasts in their bowels to prevent the overgrowth of cocci and other potentially harmful pathogens that can harm young animals.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that one of the studies you read, Bee, before you ever starting using Fermented Feeds?

Good eye! It is indeed one of the first I gleaned from Google and it impressed me enough, along with the studies done on FF for broilers, to begin the FF journey.

Experimenting on meaties is the true test of its benefits, I can tell you! They are the stinkiest, hungriest and most prone to possible health issues of all the flocks one can potentially have..and the FF changed the whole experience of the unpleasant side of CX. Regulating their feed amounts and protein percentages and free ranging took care of the rest. Easiest and most pleasant batch of meaties I've ever heard of and it was fun to see the results.

 

[Maven]

Do you all who feed fermented feed find this article true?

What Bee said!! I will NEVER go back to unfermented, dry feed! I know my gals right now are just 'hatchery mutts' but they are the healthiest, shiningest, purtiest durn hatchery mutts you can lay your eyes on!

And the monetary savings are fantastic - they eat half of what they ate dry and there is ZERO waste of feed.

 

[Beekissed]

What Bee said!! I will NEVER go back to unfermented, dry feed! I know my gals right now are just 'hatchery mutts' but they are the healthiest, shiningest, purtiest durn hatchery mutts you can lay your eyes on!

And the monetary savings are fantastic - they eat half of what they ate dry and there is ZERO waste of feed.

Mine too! What a waste of good shine on poor genetics, huh? Oh, well...you can shine up an old copper penny but it's still only worth a penny!

Me? I like my pennies shiny!

 

[NikkiMiChickie]

I, too agree with the study. I've also used FF with the 3 broody hatched chicks. And in 2/3 I saw a significantly faster feathering than with the chicks I raised in the spring.

Question for Bee (that I probably answered on the ff thread so redirect me if needed):
I've got the 2 bucket backslopping method going - have had it going for around 2 months - and the backslop bucket contains a very thick, gooey, light brown gunk (for lack of a better word). I add more water each time I add new feed, And it thins it out again. Is this normal? I was hoping that it's "the mother" or a mother-like substance filled with the probios, but I want to be sure. The smell of my ff has not changed, still fermenty-smelling Occasionally there's a white mold on top of the goo that I just skim off.
Thanks!