Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Beekissed]

I for one enjoy the ridiculous social chat too. Its not why people come here but it oils the transitions and creates a cohesiveness. How do you know how much activity was stirred up? I noticed a few posters that have not posted much did post for this. So that is awesome.
This quiz idea was really great, a totally great way to teach. Still wondering about the ByC terms and Oddities....Yep, roos and meaties and Dual Purposes. How about what to look for in a coop?
That would be a good one.
what to look for in a breeder. (a place to buy chicks and a place to put them when young)
what to look for in a 1 day old chick.....thats what I personally would like to know. Is bigger better? Brighter make a dif? obviously healthy, ...
L

If you will look at the right hand side of your page you will see a box that shows how many members are viewing the thread and how many guests. On the home page(I just found this yesterday, myself) is a ratings area that shows top rated for activity threads, top posters (yours truly on there and didn't even know it), and top rated individual posts which means posts that have the most thumbs up at any given time.

Tonight I think we've had the most viewing, ever, and the participation has been wonderful. I want to thank everyone who took the quiz and let it all hang out. I know how hard it was because then I had to take the quiz and more is expected of me...and I didn't want to let Fred down. I was writing up mine as he was posting his first reveal on the first bird, I think, so I had to go back and see how I did. Not too good for an oldster.

But I'm still learning too....

 

[NikkiMiChickie]

Any strain bred for the commercial laying industry is certainly not designed for the long haul.  It's pretty basic, if you think about it.  If your intended customer base rarely keeps birds beyond the "egg laying cliff" of a first moult, why breed for longevity?  Do some individual birds live longer, more productive lives?  Sure.  No doubt.  But statistically?  If you've got a commercial hybrid (and these come in many, many colors, types and have a plethora of fancy names)  you have got to be realistic about anything beyond two years.

What do people really think they are buying when they bring home Tetra Tints from a feed store?  Do they have a clue who Tetra is?   Google is your friend.  At least with those, you know the bird is from Tetra.  It's when the names gets changed to cutesy names that people think, what?  Fact is?  They don't.

Funny I just posted that I didn't trust google and here you are telling me he's my friend
Thanks, Fred. That's pretty much what I expected, I just wanted to see if my logic was working correctly. I have 3 birds that are commercial layers. Everyone else is hatchery DP. Looking forward to that discussion on Tuesday or thereabouts.
Thanks again for the quiz and all of your wisdom!!

 

[Fred's Hens]

Hey Walt, if you see this.

I joined the APA yesterday. Paid my dues and everything.

Only took me 60 years, but hey, the PayPal went through. They got my money.

Goodnight everybody. It's been a fun weekend.

 

[Beekissed]

Nite, Fred. Thank you for a delightful day!

 

[Beekissed]

So these egg laying sprinters... Not long-lived. Am I just going to find mine belly up under the roost a year from now or so? Or do they simply stop laying but could turn into a pet that would survive another few years? I've never seen that really specified, it's always about the 2 years of laying then they sputter out.

Unfortunately, this rarely happens that way. Production breeds rarely just stop laying and then potter off into senility. Due to their high reproduction, they often develop reproductive issues as they go out of lay, sometimes reproductive cancers(especially the ones who have had a light shoved up their butts all winter to encourage laying), etc. This is why they are usually culled at the 2 yr mark and replaced.

Not to say they can't last longer...I've had some still laying pretty well at 3 yrs but it's only a matter of time. Who wants to wait and see how they do and if they possibly suffer from laying issues and have to be given a mercy killing?

If you want breeds that lay great but are still standing in your yard past 2 years you will need a good DP breed known for exceptional lay. Here's an example of what I mean and YMMV according to your husbandry methods, so don't expect the same, but I can tell you about my experiences with the difference in production breeds vs. DP breeds.

Say a production breed lays 360 days out of the year(and that is about as high as it goes for any bird) but burns out in 2 years time. This equals 720 eggs if you bought them at POL. If you raised them from chicks, this number will be around but not exactly, at 570 eggs for their life.

If you get a good DP breed who will take a break during the winter months of maybe 2 1/2 -3 mo.(let's make it 3 to be safe) and it has to first be raised to maturity(usually a month or more past the age of the production hen to get there), her first year she will lay approx. 180 eggs but her second year you will start getting 210 eggs for a total of 390 by her second year.

Doesn't look like much compared to the PH who will lay 570 in her 2 years compared to that measly 390, does it?

But say your DP is still producing at 4 years? She will have laid 1020 eggs.

At 5 years? 1230

At 6? 1440

Of course, her egg production would not be 210 by the time she reaches 6 and could only be 170 per year or even less. And getting to 6 years of age and still be laying? Has to be an exceptional breed.

I've had BAs at the age of 7 and still going strong and I never got to see how long they could have continued because a couple of young pups I had got a hold of them. Who knows what could have happened?

Do I think my results are typical? Probably not. Possible? Yes. Depends on the breed and how hard you try.

Even if she lays to 4 yrs she has outdone the production hen and you will still have a meal when you cull her. She just might have gone broody each year as well and turned out some more of her genes, which you will not get from the PH.

A good DP breed saves you time and money way past what a production breed can do and I found that out years ago and have been acting upon it ever since.

The added benefit that has nothing to do with money? You get to have a pet that is also food and one that you will know like the back of your hand. You will be glad to give her the best gift you can at the end of her life. You can give her a clean death instead of one that involves declining into illness, pain and debility. In other words, you can eat her when she stops laying and feel good about giving her a long and happy life. You'll be able to point at the flock and say "There's Bertha's first girls and her grandbabies and her grandbaby's babies". She'll live on.

Of course, by the 4th year with a DP, you could have another 570 from another PH to total 1140 eggs in 4 years compared to the 1020 of the DP.

The replacement of production hens each 2 years is still going to yield more eggs but there is the chick purchase to consider as extra cost for replacement of that hen.

In 2 yrs. the DPH could have made up to 4 replicas of herself , so she has paid for herself not only in eggs but in 4 extra roosters for meat and 4 replacement hens.

Of course those are all theoretical numbers and a lot of supposed's but you get the general drift of where my mind has taken me over the years. If I were selling eggs for income, it would be wise to choose the PH over the DPH~ but most of us backyarders are only selling eggs to defray feed and management costs, while feasting on eggs and meat as another form of savings in the pocket.

 

[delisha]

Quote: No ..not yet. I am patiently waiting for her to do it herself this spring. It all depends on times and schedules. I have one show in spring I want to take her to, so it might have to be an incubator..not sure. Or I might have to use one of the other hens who I know will go broody and I am not letting her hatch her own. She is an egger and not a producer. Suck a lovely mom.

 

[MagicChicken]

FRED's Quiz:

Ok, here is the promised Pop Quiz. But here are the rules and background info.

There are two birds focused on here. I will try to identify them simply as Bird #1 and Bird #2. They are both ISA Browns, the quintessential layer. Think the CX of the layer birds. These are not dual purpose fowl. They are dedicated purpose fowl. Eggs, eggs and more eggs. They are both 8 months old, all the birds came in a box of 25, hatched on the same day, brooded together and raised together. Always been fed the same feed, in the same environment.

Apologize for my crappy photography and camera quality. It is what it is. While it doesn't come through on the camera well, I can give you this hint. Their feathering quality is vastly different in real life. You'll have to decide which is which and why.

Rules for the Quiz.

1. Only those who've kept backyard birds for less than 3 years are allowed to take the quiz.
2. No one can reply right now. Anyone who replies today, will be DQ'd. No ifs, ands or butts.
3. The window of turning in your Quiz responses will NOT be until this time tomorrow. There will be an open window of 8 hours in which to turn in your Quiz. Anytime tomorrow(NOW TODAY, DEC. 9) is just fine, after 1 pm EST. Noon CST, 11 am MST and 10 am PST. Sure, this is a gimmick, but hey. I want to think about this quiz and not give instant, knee jerk responses. OK?
4. Tell me what you see in comparing these two birds.
5. Tell me if you would cull one, both, neither, and why you think so.

OK, there it is. Is everyone ready for the photos to judge?




Bird # 1



Bird # 1 Bird # 2



Bird #1 Bird # 2



Bird # 2



Bird # 2

Sorry I'm responding late but I haven't been able to get to a computer until now. Wanted to take the quiz anyway, even if I don't get credit.

I haven't read ahead to see what other folks have to say. Here are my thoughts:

Bird 1 appears to have a deeper chest. Overall she looks more balanced. Her legs are in the middle, weight is centered well over them. Her shanks are thicker than the other bird's. She holds her tail at a lower angle. She seems to be a sturdier bird. I don't like that her tail seems to be pinched. Her comb and wattles are not as red as the other bird's.

Bird 2 has legs that seem to be set way back. Doesn't look as balanced as Bird 1. Bird 2's chest looks kind of shallow, but I'm not sure if that would fill out more over time. It looks a little better in the last photo. Her tail sits up higher than I like. Her pelvic area seems a little narrow, but not as narrow as Bird 1. That may be an artifact of the photo angles.

Bird 2 seems to be maturing much faster, with red comb and wattles compared with Bird 1. Also maybe faster feather development. The tail looks a little more grown in. Bird 2 also looks a bit rattier in the photos. Not sure if that's real or an artifact of the photos, so I am assuming it is an artifact. If there is a real feather condition problem I would cull Bird 2.

If I were breeding for dual purpose (meat and eggs) I would keep Bird 1 and cull Bird 2. Or maybe cull both if I had better birds in the flock. BUT this is a production breed, developed for egg-laying. If my goal were egg-laying alone, Bird 2 seems to be faster feathering and faster maturing, and I would expect Bird 2 to be more productive in the short term. If I were managing for a self-sustaining flock of egg-producers that I didn't have to completely replace every couple of years, my decision would vary depending on what the other traits in the flock are. If most of the birds are better body type but slower developing I would keep Bird 2 for the faster maturity. If most of the birds are shallow-chested, off-balance, pinch-tailed things with weak legs I would keep Bird 1 (except I think she has a pinched tail. That gives me pause.)

OK, that's a decisive "it depends." Now I get to watch the replay and see how I did...

Sarah

 

[zinia8]

What do people really think they are buying when they bring home Tetra Tints from a feed store?  Do they have a clue who Tetra is?   Google is your friend.  At least with those, you know the bird is from Tetra.  It's when the names gets changed to cutesy names that people think, what?  Fact is?  They don't.

Yep that was me.I bought those cute little yellow chicks from the feed store. I had been thinking of getting chickens for a couple of years.Did some studying (not real research) was really hoping to get some BA. But the feed store did have any. And as soon as our local feed store gets in any chicks they are gone. Doesn't matter how many they get or what kind ,gone within a day
So I bought those Tetra Tints without knowing iota about them. And only finding out what they were after I searched Google for hours on end. Tetra Babolna/Americana commercial egg layers.And I now know what their purpose is.
Yes they are sprinters and excellent foragers and they probably won't make it through their second year.But they are also a good bird for me a newbie. and they didn't cost a ton of money.So these are my learning chickens and I have lots to learn.That is why I am here just trying to soak in what ya all are saying.
Now before I get anymore chickens I will do research.

 

[Mountain Momma]

No ..not yet. I am patiently waiting for her to do it herself this spring. It all depends on times and schedules. I have one show in spring I want to take her to, so it might have to be an incubator..not sure. Or I might have to use one of the other hens who I know will go broody and I am not letting her hatch her own. She is an egger and not a producer. Suck a lovely mom.

Well good luck! What is the daddy gonna be like? This is so exciting! I'm like excited about your possible babies!
L

 

[Sally8]

Hijack???? Hijack???  Call it what it is..... CPR.  This thread has been slowly dying into ridiculous social chat and this has been the best time in a long time on this thread.  I'll take that kind of hijack any ol' day.  I too am having such fun with this, am learning as much as the newbies and hope sincerely you will do another one soon on roosters.  Everyone needs to know what to look for in a rooster for breeding. 

Thank you, Fred...    I think this has been the highest activity on this thread in a long time..if not EVER.  And it was all learning.  Pebbles in the pond of knowledge.

And thank you, Al, for the comic relief!    It's going to be your turn next....maybe the rooster quiz? 

I'd love to see a rooster quiz, whether it was general or specific to breed. Thank you all for the time and patience you give us.