Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[al6517]

Addressing the whole DP issues and the growing number of folks here on the OT thread who are striving or would like to improve their flocks/birds.

Fred & Bee and Walt have as we tend to do here said it like it is, none of this putting chocolate on a turd and calling it anything but a turd. WTS I will add my view on this topic, I think the Word DP is one of those most often missused misunderstood misinterpreted words used in this forum. First off people your not going to buy a DP bird from a hatchery, ain't happening no way no how, so please stop asking what hatchery sells the best DP birds ???. Your not going to breed in meat aspects into your hatchery birds using another breed of hatchery bird, sure it might be able to be done with lots of diligents and intestenal fortitude like Bee has done, keeping in mind she did this over many many years, a trait sadly missing in your average quick type shake and bake BYCer who want's instant results straight from the hatchery gods. But for most of you it ain't gonna happen.

Fred & Bee have lamented the reasons hatcheries exsist and that plain and simple is to sell chicks who lay tons upon tons of eggs every day and then go tit's up after just a year or two, so you can buy more chicks to get more eggs. Think about it folks, the Hatchery God's cannot keep up with your demand for mass quanities of eggs without concentrating on producing/breeding birds who will lay like crazy. They can't sell huge numbers of chicks without eggs to hatch and will closely monitor, supervise, and yes dictate a specific cross breeding program to their egg bird contractors. This was fueled by what I refer to as the egg whores, those who will move heaven and earth to get an egg a day from every bird regardless period end of story, they want a certain breed to be this or that and colored this way or that, but all that is bunko because the next words out of their mouths are ( I don't care what they look like as long as they lay). They don't care if their partridge Cochin looks like a Rat terrier dog as long as the hatchery gods say it's a partridge Cochin and it will in fact lay eggs per your twisted idea of production. Every single chicken hugger I know will have you believe they treat their chickens like a Paris Hilton pet............ having the best of everything and that it's their family pet who will never be harmed. Truth is these folks will burn this bird at the stake if they miss laying for a day, while having you think otherwise FACT!!!. just read as many of you have and have posted on such threads.

DP's cannot and will never be aquired from a hatchery it's impossible, they can't do it, they won't do it. But it is much easier and profitable to lead you to believe they do. The H3ll you say............. well some of have most recently posted pic's of real birds and the hatchery cult comes back and say's OMG those are the greatest birds I have ever seen where can I order them

............ and in the same breath as is their usaul response they ask do they lay well............ because that's what the industry has bombarded the masses with like that is the most important thing. Shoooooot they do a better job at misinformation and controling their cult followers than the Chinese LOL. Back before the evil hatcheries there was no such thing as a DP....... why you ask because every chicken was a true DP used both ways effectively, they were big & meaty and layed well, they could be eatin for Sunday dinner and relied upon to provide breakfast routinely, and I might add they looked and acted fantasticly. So when did all that change you ask ??? well I think you know the answer already. How do I get some of these birds you ask ??? they are out there all over the place, you just have to look beyond your hatchery nose. Shoot !!! go down the road or out to the country for a Sunday drive and see flocks raised by people who don't even know Hatcheries exsist, that's where !!!!. You don't have to get good stock from dedicated breeders at what you think are high priced, or hard to get. Get off your duff and go find them it ain't hard, but if your unwilling to go farther than the P.O or your mailbox then stop complaining, sorry it's just getting old.

So yeah I may have given these facts with a little bit more of an edgy feel but it seems the only way to make people truly understand the answers to their questions, plain and simple without the Chocolate. Sure we can help, sure you've been ripped off ordering from those so called snake oil breeders and you think that's all there is, phooooey !!!! don't blame them blame yourself, get off the computer get in the car and go find them. you don't have to have a gangsta roll of cash in your pocket to do it either.......................... another fact the hatcheries love for you to think is that they are so cheap you can't go anywhere else and buy cheap birds. That's what your getting from the hatchery, cheap birds not good birds inexpensively, there's a difference.


OK so I am now ready for the barrage of those who feel the opposite, let's hear your plan.

 

[al6517]

Al, I'm gonna pick your brain about those leg bands, toward the end of the week.

Sure brother............... I gotta send the wife out camera batteries today, as my rig is empty and pic's are the best way to show everybody.

 

[maryhysong]

A few words......................

Toe Punching....................

The Diagram Walt posted is considered the standard operating procedure for the toe puching of very young day old - several days old chicks. it is a great method used by serious breeders who put serious numbers on the ground each year, it helps keep track of not only breeding groups and breeds but also is used effectively in ID'ing several Generations of birds to be used in further breeding. It doesn't hurt the chick bleeding is very little to non exsistant and will not become infected if you keep clean brooders. It's simple, easy and fast, plain & simple period. It also helps to learn once again how to vent sex chicks as this will also add another tool in your toe puching.

Leg Bands........................

After intial toe punching......... when the chick is big enough to be banded after the first chick culling session, I band them using wide spiral colored numbered bands. these bands are great IMO they come in many various sizes and colors, they can and do fit very well on very young birds all the way to adults. If done properly and monitored systematicly replacing them with the next sizes up they work great. Keep in mind a spiral band will stretch and conform to growing birds until the next size is needed. Put the bands above the spur line, and they should be slightly loose fitting but in way can slip off at all even during animated behavior. another advantage is these bands when replaced can be used again further down the road, so buying a variety of sizes and colors and different numbers will last you for a seriously long long time.

Thank you very much; I figured toe punching didn't look any worse than getting your ears pierced and probably less painful. I DO want to learn to vent sex and I have seen some fairly good videos over on you tube. Think I will practice when I have another hatch and maybe mark them some way then see if I'm right.

now to hunt up some bands. Wondering if there's anywhere you could buy an assortment of colors and sizes? The catalog I looked at before I think it was like 50 or 100 of each size/color. That would get a bit pricey for me right now and I might not need that many in my lifetime!

 

[al6517]

You can and should buy leg bands in groups of 25.......... they rarely exceed $2.50 for these. Smith poultry is place to buy them barr none.

 

[fowlman01]

This is something Walt is better schooled in to answer but I'll give it stab. Walt can clarify, if and when he comes along.

I've doing some serious reading of poultry journals, newsletters and such from the APA and regional groups. There is real push on for the APA to even consider certifying heritage flocks. Very interesting. There's a ton of work to be done and clarity to yet be found on these matters, but function of the breed IS important, not just the candy coated exterior.

Walt owns a group of Kathy's New Hampshire and is likely mopping up the competition at any show he takes them. Why wouldn't he? LOL

I believe Walt said they feathered in quickly, grew quickly too. That IS a New Hampshire trait and needs to be there. That means they'll lay well too, in my book.

The APA has a committee studying the feasibility of some APA judges being trained to certify flocks to be true heritage birds. The APA currently has no position on what a heritage bird is....the ALBC does and they use the APA recognition year as the date to qualify a breed. I think it is mid 1950's or so. I have no idea what the training will be, but when it is established I hope to qualify as a certifying judge.

The New Hamps I obtained from a local woman who ordered them from kathyinmo are a totally random group that I got free. Two males and 8 females. The overall quality is very good with 3 of the females competitive show birds. This is an indication of the overall quality of the breed ....or at least of the NH's Kathy has. The females started laying at 6 months and looked like adults at that age. The males are another thing. They are slow growers and won't be finished until they are 10 months old or so. At 7 months the males weighed 9 lbs. I am not showing these too often as they are not birds that were raised here. I showed them to see if the quality was what I thought it was.......and it is. First time out we had best American with a 7 month old pullet that beat some very good RIR's along with some other birds in the class.

Good heritage birds are getting very reasonable for eggs and chicks. The big prices you hear about for eggs is for the rare non standard breeds that have been imported by Green Fire Farm and others trying to make a buck. Most of what they import do not have very good conformation by anyone's standards.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Sure brother............... I gotta send the wife out camera batteries today, as my rig is empty and pic's are the best way to show everybody.

Have her get you a sammich too.......maybe she can take your rig and fill er up on the way.

w.

 

[Beekissed]

Great post, as usual, Al.

Love it when you get on a roll. I'm doing an unofficial polling on my other thread right now about why people got into chickens and what their goals were at the time, what breeds they currently possess. Most people reply that they got into chickens to feed their family healthier foods.

That is the number one story on this forum and every other that I have read. About 80% of these wanting them to feed their family have no intention of ever killing one of their chickens for that food source, they hope to just get the eggs from them instead. Here's where the fun begins..and also the sadness.

They choose breeds that are high production and some that are known to lay well but still look good(coop candy). The high producers lay like a salad shooter for a bit because they are getting the richest diet ever to be had(hand cooked meals, no less), have a light shoved up their butt all winter to keep them warm and make them lay.... and then have reproductive issues, health issues, etc. Sad story number one. They didn't cull the bird and eat it~thus NOT providing more food for the family~and they let it die a bad death.

Sad story number two. The coop candy BO, Wyandotte, silky, fuzzy, creepy, geeky..whatever bird is not fit for laying, may or may not have enough meat on it to eat, and will also die a bad death because no one will at least utilize the meat for the family's food supply.

Meanwhile much money has been spent on $1200 coops, Ft. Knox defenses from neighborhood dogs(and their own), and tons of organic feed....OF COURSE they are going to want something to show for it! Eggs are the only dividend they got from this whole disaster. Eggs and a few bad hatches under a silky or fuzzy or grizzle, or from a cheap incubator, that maybe resulted in one or two normal chicks.

I know that is a harsh assessment as well but I've read this story over and over and over on BYC, FB, sister sites of BYC...you name it, everyone wants the eggs. The eggs. Not the meat. Hardly ever do they want the meat....so there, Al, is why the egg laying is so very important.

Now...stop getting me fired up! Yer a bad influence...I hadn't spouted off for quite some time.

 

[al6517]

Quote from Al:

Great information, Al. I must confess that I have always thought the toe punch was a little harsh, without ever actually reading about it or thinking about it. Seemed like it would leave chicks vulnerable to infection, unlike the ear punch on a lamb or calf, due to the chicks walking in feces. Now I'm thinking that it was a knee-jerk, nursing style assumption.

Thank you for this post and I will rethink the process and try to learn more about it if I ever get so many offspring that I can't pick them out of a mob. It all makes sense if someone is actually trying to keep records on their breeding instead of naming the birds that come out and knowing them on sight, which is highly inefficient if you breed more than once a year and more than only one bird.

I will aid you with a few tips that ensure live brooded birds who are raised on the ground as yours often are. Yup !! we are here to cure the knee jerk LOL. Yes the naming of the chickies ID group is vastly incompetant way of keeping track LOL.

 

[Beekissed]

Have her get you a sammich too.......maybe she can take your rig and fill er up on the way.

w.

As always, a pleasure to hear you speak, Walt.

 

[al6517]

Quote:

My thinking exactly hehehehehee, Oh and I'll give her a Dollar so she can buy something nice for herself LOL.