Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

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a good breeder really doesnt need that many brood pens. a brood cocks and 1/2 dz or less brood hens and you could breed for decades.....secret is selectivity. cull hard. and start with good brood fowl.

I come at this from an angle of long-term genetic conservation, not simply slowing of genetic loss through line breeding. Even in best line breeding scenario you will have to bring in new blood otherwise with each generation of birds you breed back to a net loss of alleles will occur resulting in inbreeding. You can maintain genetic variation using a smaller number of breeders using linebreeding but multiple lines will need to be maintained and that starts putting number of breeders back up into realm of what is difficult to sustain by a single household. It is the use of line breeding, relatively large flocks and frequent exchange of birds coupled with aggressive selection that cockers employ(ed) enabling persitance of so much genetic variation as a whole. Sadly this is not so well employed with production breeds which is destroying the genetic differsity needed for long-term persistance of such breeds. Some lines of games are not so good to cross while others are great. With production breeds and flocks bred for show, crossing is often avoided because many more folks think such crosses cause one to deviate from the Standard of Perfection.

not totally so. its not as a momentous undertaking as you may believe. yes a breeder may and will take a wrong turn here and there, but its possible to fix the mistake. by simply not reprudcing the brood pen. meticulous notes is a must. but thats a given for any type of breeding exercise. as mentioned, starting with strong/good brood fowl is also a must. that gets you yrs ahead of schedule. of course this is not a course for most. but its not impossible. chickens are much easier to breed and succeed at doing so than most other types of animal husbandry.
out crossing can possibly helps. but then your introducing new and unproven genetics to your line. and just b/c speciman A and speciman B is excellent, this does not mean they will do well together.

as for the science of breeding game fowl..............the general consensus amoung most modern breeders. is you keep your brood lines pure, un adulterated. then cross two lines to make you hybrid battle fowl. some may at times introduce new blood to the brood fowl, called infusing. but you can bet this is only and experimental pen or two. while you keep whats golden at 24K. till the outcrossing, infussing, etc proves itself. id say the same principle applies to most any fowl.
 
why wait. eat the eggs now. this is not coming from the books you read. its coming from experience. i can hear the gasps of horror already. lol.
 
I have read so many posts between here and back to who asked the original question about what chickens to get I forgot who it was ,, and I am not going to go searching for the OP>.

what I remember is what should they do ? raise their own meat birds or buy some.. ?? they were talking about only 6 birds.. feed costs for six chickens is not an issue.. keeping chickens for a whole year just to hatch 6 meaties does not make sense for the amount of work involved.. If you want chickens to take care of, that is a different matter.. then get a good rooster and a few hens and enjoy yourself.. (or borrow a rooster when you need fertile eggs) I loan out roosters every year to people.. they just bring them back when they are finished with them..

as far as sustaining a flock.. keep the breeders for a few years until the hens just about quit laying.. then hatch some fresh hens and keep the original rooster.. then keep these hens for a couple of years and then replace the rooster.. by then you wil have had chickens for such a long time, you will know what to do after that..

You are not breeding for show.. you will always have enough meat and eggs,and that is all you are after, right ?
 
I am purchasing Freedom Rangers come spring for a meat bird. I just did not like what I was reading about the Cornish X. The Freedom Rangers grow almost as fast as the Cornish X, but will forage, free range & not just eat 24/7.
Am just going to start out with 20, and stagger the grow out time, to best determine what size I want to butcher them at.

Gypsi Glad to hear about your pullets!
thumbsup.gif
Any word on your insurance co.?
 
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I read the label on the medicine. It said not for birds used to produce eggs for human production. Reckon I'll wait the legal limit and just slaughter them as game birds?

14 days for Wazine is what most people do for the eggs since that's the time limit for slaughter.
 
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The way I understood it, he wanted to keep six total birds as a breeding flock and use them to hatch out others for meat. I don't remember any mention of eggs to eat, just meat was discussed. I assumed replacements would also come from the ones he hatched, since he said "sustainable". The kicker for me in it was that he was feeding them everything they ate. They would not forage. And cost was a factor for him. I think the"six" was just throwing a number out to start the conversation and let us know he wanted to keep it small.

To me, the most effficient way to get the meat is to get broilers and raise them. You take care if them for 2 months, fill your freezer, and you are done. It's not sustainable but you know where your meat comes from. I just don't see where you can beat the feed to meat conversion you get from broilers if you are buying all the feed.

If you want to keep the parents and hatch out your birds, you can keep a small flock like that and get it to work. There are different strategies you could use to keep genetic diversity. Keep one rooster with five hens and bring in some new blood every few years. Keep 2 roosters and 4 hens in two separate breeding pens or even 3 roosters and 3 hens in 3 separate breeding pens and set up a rotation to keep genetic diversity up. Depending on how you choose your breeders from these rotations, you can keep genetic diversity up for quite a while, but it does take good record-keeping. To me, the easiest way is to bring in new blood every few years since he is talking about only a few chickens. And three to five hens would possibly give him more eggs than he would need.

If they forage for most of their food, then keeping a small breeding flock is a great way to go. You'd probably need an incubator to hatch out the number of chickens you need since you would be unlikely to get enough broodies. I like not butchering all of them at the same time but keeping them fresh on the claw, only butchering a few at a time. I like the taste of older chickens and they make great broth. Like someone else mentioned, the electricity occasionally goes out and may stay out for several days where I am, but I have a generator to deal with that. If you factor in the cost of the generator, buying meat from the store becomes more attractive from a cost viewpoint, but I have a lot of stuff from my garden in the freezer too. And my generator is big enough to heat the water, just not while the freezer or refrigerator are plugged in.

I think you made a good point on the work load. With animals you are tied down. Chickens, cows, goats, whatever. Vacations or maybe even sleeping in become factors depending on how you manage them. If you can fool with them for two months and are done, vacations become easier to plan.

There are tradeoffs and considerations whichever way you go. We don't always come to the same conclusions.
 
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This has only been a fact for about a half hour. Unfortunately it's a fact with no supporting data & a great deal of opposing data. In other words it's just not so.

You probably don't believe in Santa either.........

I like the notion that everything posted here is fact until someone responds otherwise. It really seems to work that way.

Walt

Oh no, I absolutely believe in SANTA.
 
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I guess what I mean was it is truely a tough project and it has to be approached with a definite goal and a well thought out plan. here is a link that is quite long but we discuss this and 3 or 4 of us me included had the same ongoing project and compared results as time went by and some are still trying. It does have a ton of pic's.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=316007

I started my sustainable meat bird project with the goal to have nice big meaty birds that grew fast but not too fast for the stew pot but that could also live for years and lay and naturaly reproduce and hatch consistant heavy birds. As I stated most started out with inferior hatchery stock and after much tribulation just ended up with different colored hatchery birds, I started with my own stock of show quality birds using Rare Pure LF white Cornish and SQ white rocks and commercial Cornish X. Yes thats right commercial Cornish X's raised special under a very strict diet to laying age, mine lived 3 years. I wanted the birds to be white so I started out with white and stayed that way, eliminating the whole color issue from the start. I bred them together in various matings, evaluated them culled heavy and rebred again and again and again. Until I achieved a finished bird that was white, grew to 6lbs dressed weight in 20 weeks, had no heart or leg issues, and could lay 20 weeks and hatch out the same type bird consistantly over time, with a slight infusion of new blood every 2 years, they also could free range well and had very good temerments.

Anyway that is what I did, some folks had some results but not near what they invisioned by crossing hatchery Cornish with things like Hatchery americanas, Jersey Giants, Welsumers, BO's stuff that you might think would work well because of their size. The obstacles as you can imagine was growing out, selecting, hatching, culling, raising and then starting all over again and again for years, and this was the sad demise of many who tried such a project because they just thought hey why don't just cross this and that and then like magic WaLa a sustainable meat bird. It doesn't work that way, the commercial Cornish X took many many years to develop and their parent stock is locked up and maintained tighter than fort know. The rare LF White Cornish was the cornerstone to their program so they systamaticly bought every single bird in the country they could find to reduce the chance of any home flock doing the same thing, that is why there are only less than 10 flocks of LF white cornish in the country today.

AL
 
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ive never belived in the term DUAL PURPOSE. to me its a sells gimmick. if one wants meat birds, then they should have true meat birds. if one wants layers, then they should have a proven egg producing family or strain.

if it was I..................I would buy and raise cornish Xs. true they arent sustainable, but nothing i know of comes close, and with the price of feed. you want the most bang for your ever shrinking buck.

last yr i battery raised cornish X's. it worked out great. still more expensive than store bought, but it was experiemental, and i have no complaints.

if i didnt want cornish X i would go for a meaty lil ol bird like a OEGB. solid little bodies, alot of meat for their small size, tame, easy to raise, pleasing to the eye, and easy to butcher. yet very sustainable. you just have to raise alot of them to feed a whole family.

Being sustainable doesn't always involve costing less. We have paid FAR more for our garden to grow our own produce than we'd ever pay buying it at the grocery store. Our coops cost far more than it would cost to buy eggs. Our orchard is probably the most cost effective, but we still had to put up a fence to keep the deer out. It's better for us, tastes better, and we are in control of how it is raised/grown.

To us, being sustainable means living without the need of outside sources as much as possible. A Cornish Cross cannot breed of it's own nature and requires you to buy every time from an outside source. Where a true dual purpose breed can breed and keep you in food for a long time. (with extra meat and eggs) Sure it doesn't grow as fast or have as much meat, but that's not the point for us.

Obviously you cannot be completely self sufficient, but we strive to get as close as we can.
 
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