Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Beekissed]

Bee
I've followed this thread since you started it and really appreciate your and the other OT's wisdom and experience. Over the years I'm sure you've had many different breeds and have probably found what breeds work best for your type of husbandry/management style. I'm curious what breeds you've chosen to stick with and why? Also, you're always commending your dogs, who seem to do a fine job guarding your flock. What kind of dogs are they? Thanks

I've only ever had Lab or Lab mix dogs with the best LGD combo being my GP/Lab mix female who passed away last year. They are amazingly easy to train, extremely loyal and tuned into a pack leader and have gentle, sweet attitudes towards smaller animals. Good prey drive, hardy to the max in all climates, great with people and kids.

Somewhere back in this thread I gave my fave breeds and why, but I'll do a brief rundown. Any flock I've had that had Black Aussies has benefited from their presence, hands down. This is a no- fail bird for egg laying, hardiness, medium heavy build and just sweet dispositions. They are good on feed, forage well and seem to like being near humans but still have a good wariness on a range situation. Made my latest flock's yearly culling and are still going strong at age 6+. If I could only choose one breed for a flock, this would be the breed I'd choose.

RIR. A little lighter weight but still excellent layers, hardy to the max, quirky and sweet dispositions, good on feed and great on forage/range. Don't have any in my current flocks(they all finally got too old and had to die) but will be getting them again in the next one. They are an old standby that my granny and my mother raised and you just can't fault their traits...they truly are a classic. If you cross a RIR over any of my fave breeds, you have a great hen to carry on the traits.

White Rocks: Supreme heavy build, hardy x10, egg laying is superlative considering their big size but it isn't fat, it tends to be heavy muscle. Good mothering, yearly broodiness from one or the other of the WR hens but immediate return to laying afterwards. All my WRs of this last flock made the yearly egg cull and are still going strong at age 5-6. I'll never have another flock without including these great birds.

New Hampshires: A big surprise for me in the past several years because these were a breed I'd not had previous to 5-6 years ago. They made the cut each year of the current/last flock, huge and meaty builds, occasional broody but not excessive, extra hardy, and are still going strong right beside the WRs into their 6 th year of life. Both of these breeds recover from molt strongly, still lay in the winter but on slow mode, and ramp up long about right now into egg laying fools. A good, sturdy bird that delivers year after year.

White Leghorns: An oldy but a goody. Light builds like the RIR but make up for it in hardiness, egg laying, feed thrift and foraging. Don't go broody much, if at all, but they lay for many years.

Breeds I've also tried a few times over the years but don't have as long history with, still great birds for the time I had them: Barred Rocks, Partridge Rock, Speckled Sussex, Sussex, Mixed layers of the above breeds.

My roo breed of choice thus far has been a Partridge Rock, as I find them to be intelligent, gentle with the hens, vigilant and respectful to humans...and very quiet. I love a roo that only crows when he is expected to~mornings. The rest of the day they call warning calls but not much crowing going on.

Breeds I've tried and didn't keep: Black and Red Production(burn out before the 2nd year, scraggly and not hardy, small builds, no broody), Wyandottes(nasty birds each time I've tried them in the flock, too fat, not good laying), Orpingtons of any color(same as the Wyandottes but without the nasty dispositions, eat too much, carry too much fat for good laying production, too docile with the roo which makes for bare backs), EEs(limited experience with them but the ones I had were too broody, wouldn't fight for their place in the order, loners in the flock, not even close to good laying), Dominiques(this surprised me because my Granny always had them and they were great. They didn't make my cut past the 2nd year of this last flock...maybe because they were hatchery birds and their natural traits are long gone since the old days, but they were not hardy, not the best layers)

If you are wondering why I've kept some of these hens for so long, I set out to see how long a bird can conceivably lay one egg per day in peak season or at least lay every other day into their old age. I wanted to find a chicken that was suitable for sustainable flocks and wouldn't have to be culled after a couple of years. I've found that frequent replacement of the flock doesn't leave much room for replacement breeding of good traits to carry on to the next flock. The top picks I've given you are these breeds. I'm going to keep adding to that breed list, God willing and the creek don't rise, down through the years with other old-timey breeds I've not tried, just to see if I can add to my list of hardy, self-sustaining, high producing breeds.

If any of the OTs have a breed they've had good experience with on the long term that suit my homesteading flock goal, please give us a description and tell us why those birds should be given a try. The traits I look for in a good self-sustainable flock are dual-purpose(if possible I'll trade a meaty build for superlative laying ability but I want standard size breeds), hardiness, occasional broodiness(I'll trade this also as long as I have one or two of another breed that I can load up with eggs), good survival and foraging skills on free range, flock mentality, excellent laying in peak season with a normal slow down in winter months, even disposition(doesn't have to be a lap chicken but no bully breeds, no birds that can't recognize the authority of human), feed thrift(birds that overeat generally don't lay well and they waste feed).

Other OTs may have breeds they like and their setups may be more similar to what you want in a flock. I only speak from a frugal, self-sustainable viewpoint that many serious chicken farmers do not embrace for one reason or another. It doesn't make their husbandry wrong or mine wrong, it just makes us both right for our different styles/needs. I urge you to poll the other OTs if your setup isn't like mine so that you can get a more realistic(for you)breed recommendation.

 

[Duramaxgirl]

Wow good post! Unfortunately all my breeds are listed in your unliked birds!

I do like leghorns! I also like the NHR and RIRs are ok. The black stars are super mean and peck for blood when I look for eggs under them.

I've only ever had Lab or Lab mix dogs with the best LGD combo being my GP/Lab mix female who passed away last year. They are amazingly easy to train, extremely loyal and tuned into a pack leader and have gentle, sweet attitudes towards smaller animals. Good prey drive, hardy to the max in all climates, great with people and kids.

Somewhere back in this thread I gave my fave breeds and why, but I'll do a brief rundown. Any flock I've had that had Black Aussies has benefited from their presence, hands down. This is a no- fail bird for egg laying, hardiness, medium heavy build and just sweet dispositions. They are good on feed, forage well and seem to like being near humans but still have a good wariness on a range situation. Made my latest flock's yearly culling and are still going strong at age 6+. If I could only choose one breed for a flock, this would be the breed I'd choose.

RIR. A little lighter weight but still excellent layers, hardy to the max, quirky and sweet dispositions, good on feed and great on forage/range. Don't have any in my current flocks(they all finally got too old and had to die) but will be getting them again in the next one. They are an old standby that my granny and my mother raised and you just can't fault their traits...they truly are a classic. If you cross a RIR over any of my fave breeds, you have a great hen to carry on the traits.

White Rocks: Supreme heavy build, hardy x10, egg laying is superlative considering their big size but it isn't fat, it tends to be heavy muscle. Good mothering, yearly broodiness from one or the other of the WR hens but immediate return to laying afterwards. All my WRs of this last flock made the yearly egg cull and are still going strong at age 5-6. I'll never have another flock without including these great birds.

New Hampshires: A big surprise for me in the past several years because these were a breed I'd not had previous to 5-6 years ago. They made the cut each year of the current/last flock, huge and meaty builds, occasional broody but not excessive, extra hardy, and are still going strong right beside the WRs into their 6 th year of life. Both of these breeds recover from molt strongly, still lay in the winter but on slow mode, and ramp up long about right now into egg laying fools. A good, sturdy bird that delivers year after year.

White Leghorns: An oldy but a goody. Light builds like the RIR but make up for it in hardiness, egg laying, feed thrift and foraging. Don't go broody much, if at all, but they lay for many years.

Breeds I've also tried a few times over the years but don't have as long history with, still great birds for the time I had them: Barred Rocks, Partridge Rock, Speckled Sussex, Sussex, Mixed layers of the above breeds.

My roo breed of choice thus far has been a Partridge Rock, as I find them to be intelligent, gentle with the hens, vigilant and respectful to humans...and very quiet. I love a roo that only crows when he is expected to~mornings. The rest of the day they call warning calls but not much crowing going on.

Breeds I've tried and didn't keep: Black and Red Production(burn out before the 2nd year, scraggly and not hardy, small builds, no broody), Wyandottes(nasty birds each time I've tried them in the flock, too fat, not good laying), Orpingtons of any color(same as the Wyandottes but without the nasty dispositions, eat too much, carry too much fat for good laying production, too docile with the roo which makes for bare backs), EEs(limited experience with them but the ones I had were too broody, wouldn't fight for their place in the order, loners in the flock, not even close to good laying), Dominiques(this surprised me because my Granny always had them and they were great. They didn't make my cut past the 2nd year of this last flock...maybe because they were hatchery birds and their natural traits are long gone since the old days, but they were not hardy, not the best layers)

If you are wondering why I've kept some of these hens for so long, I set out to see how long a bird can conceivably lay one egg per day in peak season or at least lay every other day into their old age. I wanted to find a chicken that was suitable for sustainable flocks and wouldn't have to be culled after a couple of years. I've found that frequent replacement of the flock doesn't leave much room for replacement breeding of good traits to carry on to the next flock. The top picks I've given you are these breeds. I'm going to keep adding to that breed list, God willing and the creek don't rise, down through the years with other old-timey breeds I've not tried, just to see if I can add to my list of hardy, self-sustaining, high producing breeds.

If any of the OTs have a breed they've had good experience with on the long term that suit my homesteading flock goal, please give us a description and tell us why those birds should be given a try. The traits I look for in a good self-sustainable flock are dual-purpose(if possible I'll trade a meaty build for superlative laying ability but I want standard size breeds), hardiness, occasional broodiness(I'll trade this also as long as I have one or two of another breed that I can load up with eggs), good survival and foraging skills on free range, flock mentality, excellent laying in peak season with a normal slow down in winter months, even disposition(doesn't have to be a lap chicken but no bully breeds, no birds that can't recognize the authority of human), feed thrift(birds that overeat generally don't lay well and they waste feed).

Other OTs may have breeds they like and their setups may be more similar to what you want in a flock. I only speak from a frugal, self-sustainable viewpoint that many serious chicken farmers do not embrace for one reason or another. It doesn't make their husbandry wrong or mine wrong, it just makes us both right for our different styles/needs. I urge you to poll the other OTs if your setup isn't like mine so that you can get a more realistic(for you)breed recommendation.

 

[bj taylor]

having no personal point of reference, i made my breed choice based on descriptions here on byc. i was looking for dual purpose with reasonable dispositions, and not likely to fly (because of my coop/run environment). i chose buff orpington, barred rock, black australorp, & silver laced wyandotte. at the time i didn't know to look for characteristics such as flock mentality, and good foragers. i'm not looking for lap chickens, but i sure hope "nasty" temperments isn't what i've got myself into.

 

[TexasGoatGal]

Thanks to Bee and all the OT'ers who take the time to provide info here for all of us. I'm a newbie to chickens, although not to other livestock, and I definitely have learned a lot from this thread!!!

I'm living/working on a ranch in SW Texas (was brutally hot last summer) and there is an old coop that had chickens in it with the folks who lived here previously. I have quite a bit of work to do on the fencing/run, and I don't think the hen house has been cleaned out in a lot of years, so that's next on my list, but as I was raking out the old wire and glass and cans from the run, I was also taking out some of the shrub/weeds that are growing in there, and began to wonder about plants or foods that are toxic to chickens. There's a lot of mesquite, greasewood (aka creosote bush), feather delea, some ironwood (guyacan) and some that I won't know what it is till it leafs out again. A lot of this the deer eat (except the greasewood) and I'm wondering if any of it is toxic to chickens. I thought I'd leave some of it in the run for shade if not.

Thoughts on this? And also any food/table scraps that are toxic to chickens? I think I saw this touched on earlier in the thread (I read the whole thing) and someone mentioned chocolate. No chance of that getting to the chickens, because I eat all the chocolate - its my 1st food group, don't 'cha know?! Anyway, any info on foods/plants that are toxic to chickens would be most gratefully appreciated! Thanks!

 

[123ChickieLou]

Bee- Thanks for taking the time to asnwer I feared the wet conditions might be the worst of it. So far no one is showing signs of illness but I don't want it to get that far.
There are plenty of roosts for them to get off of the wet ground inside the pen and some actually use them.The ones that don't might not make good birds for me to keep considering the way the pen holds water. At least until I figure out how to keep it from holding water. It does, as you pointed out, get unsanitary in there when it rains. I provide them with as much raised area as I can. My other solution is to keep fewer birds, and that'd be fine too. Eight have more needs than four, and so on. Square pegs need square holes.
The rest of the yard isn't wet unless it rains, so that's not as much of a problem and that's where they spend most of their time. They don't have to stand around in a wet run all day, thankfully.
Good to know about the feed too; they actually prefer the layer crumbles over anything, even oatmeal. I ran out of crumbles a couple of weeks ago and had to give them household leftovers for a few days; they loved that but when I brought home the crumbles nearly choked themselves eating so fast.
I understand what you mean about how some things work for you because of your set up and may or may not work in another set up. I'm taking that into consideration too; what my available options are and how that will dictate how many birds I can have and what I can do with them.

 

[JenellYB]

I know this post is kinda old, but ran across it and had to comment....Seminolewind, I hate to differ with you, but corn, as we call it, maize, was NOT something intorduced by "white man." Corn was a native to the Americas, widely known and used through out much of North, Central, and South Americas, before Europeans, "white man", ever came here. Corn (maize), as well as potatoes, tomatoes, squash, pumpkin, and beans, were entirely unknown in the "Old World."

The American Indian did not die off from white man disease, majorly, they died off from the introduction of white man corn. Corn became their main staple, and what happened was they got poor nutrition, poor immune system due to poor nutrition, and all their teeth rotted from the sugar.

 

[JenellYB]

I'm really enjoying this thread, as I have many the last several weeks since coming here. Its fun remembering my 'old' chicken keeping days, though its been a few years. And i've leaned new things while here, too, so you never learn it all. My interest in chickens get 'renewed' here recently when I aquired a tiny bantam hen rescued from dogs, badly injured that has survived, thrived, and now lives in an old cockateil cage in my shop by a window!
But I had moved to the country, taken up the 'homestead' lifestyle, in 1972, which of course included chickens. We had 4 kids, I didn't work outside the home, my contribution to family income and quality lifestyle was much in raising animals (chickens and other odd and end fowl, cattle, hogs, rabbits, a few dairy goats,) to provide meat, eggs, milk, and even honey, and sale to supplement cash, gardening, food preserving, etc, as well as keeping purebred dogs and horses. Lived that life pretty much until 1995, or 23 yrs. Still live in the country since then, but on a smaller place several miles from the old one, and while I continued gardening, some dog breeding/showing for some years, and keeping my horse, not much in livestock since then. I'm alone now so don't need a lot of food anyway...I get fat too easy! But I still am in regular contact with a lot of my old neighbors, that still keep at least chickens. the area is changing though, fewer farm and homestead families, more suburbanites and retirees moving out here, breaking up 50 acre cow pastures and soybean fields to build 10 or 20 McMansions. My house is an old farmhouse built the year I was born, 63 years ago...set as is it is, 2 1/2 acres cut out of the original farm, on a natural small hill in the middle of a flat wet prairie and timber land area, with 50-75 yr old oaks and pecans and cypress trees shading it, no doubt the McMansion folk watch and drool impatiently, waiting for me to die or go to the nursing home, (I'm only 63, but my health isn't real good, so that gives them hope!) so they can tear it down and set their McMansion on one of the highest pieces of ground around, with show case big trees to boot!

I did keep 3 hens awhile, 3-6 yrs ago, when my sister stayed here before she passed, and she'd always wanted to live in the country and have chickens. I gave them to an old neighbor that still keeps a flock, when my sister passed.

So I guess that qualifies me as an oldtimer.

Most of what I'd advise, others here have already said. But I'd place most stress on 1, decide why you are going to keep chickens, what you want out of them, whether pet, eggs, meat, show, whatever, 2. prepare your facilities BEFORE you get them, 3. Choose breed and kind of stock suited to your needs and wants and facilities.

One BIG thing I've noticed in a lot of threads, problems people have, start right here in these three things. They'd chose the wrong kind of chicken and the the wrong kind of facilities for what they want to do. By wrong kind of facilities, I mean they often didn't really think about what is needed and designing/building for that.

One thing that is one of my 'pet peeves', not just anything here, but in my years of experience, seeing others move out here to the country and decide to get chickens, is this "free range" thing. Everybody seems to assume they are going to "free range" their chickens...some remember grandma out in the back country doing it that way, or so they think they remember, so...
Free range isn't really practical for most situations.
Free range isn't just the answer to the expense, work, and effort it takes to build a fence. No kidding, I've known a lot of people moving out to the country from the city that "decided" to go free range just becasue they didn;'t figure they'd need to build a fence to keep chickens...just give them the run of the neighborhood just like they often assume they can do with their dogs, as well!
Free range isn't just letting them have unrestrained free run of the countryside, including your neighbor's property.Chicken owners more often complain about other people's dogs coming onto their property to kill their chickens, ignroing their neighbors are having to try to keep their chickens out of their gardens, flowerbeds, and off their porches and patios. Free range also means eggs hidden only god knows where, never knowing for sure how old an egg may be when you do find it. Many 'free range' owners have had an egg become an exploding stink bomb the minute they try to pick it up! And again, predators, you want to encourage predators? Having tasty eggs laying all over the place is just inviting predators of all kinds to dinner!
Free range is rarely realistic, given predation....whether its dogs or wild predators. Chickens are VULNERABLE! They are PREY! EASY prey!
Even where one's location makes it possible, some breeds of chicken are geared to taking care of themselves better than others. Again, match choice of chicken breed to what you want out of them, and to the facilities you have. And have those facilities ready BEFORE you get the chickens!

 

[JenellYB]

Cranes, herons, and a few of the larger egrets, are most often the culprit when koi and goldfish are taken from shallow ponds. But I've never known them bother chickens. They are, as their long legs and long beaks suggest, generally a marsh bird, and fish are their primary diet. Plastic netting spread out over the pond is the only really effective solution I know, once they've found this food source. A Koi hobbyist I know spreads plastic netting used for covering fruit trees over their koi ponds, mars the appearance, fo course. But if draped so as to rest just on or below the water surface, it's not terribly obvious from a distance.

There is a roof - tin part, and chicken wire part - on my run. It doesn't always keep the sparrows out, and a rodent can get through, but while I was building the run red tailed hawks were circling above my yard, and I'd already lost a pullet to a dog, and another to a feral cat, and I said, hmm, roof. Didn't cost that much to stretch that wire. In summer when my trees have leaves, there is plenty of cover.

Now on this birds of prey stuff, I lost 35 to 40 6 inch+ koi plus about 40 goldfish to an airborne predator that stands 3 ft tall not counting its legs. The wide wingspan is deterred from my small backyard pond because it is in a crowded area, between 6 ft kennel fence and a greenhouse / my house, but the bird cleaned out my other pond in a day or 2. Very efficient blue heron.

Since raptors have wide wings, and since I'm a backyard sort of chicken keeper, while I'm building the now necessary pergola over the pond the bird hit, I'll probably add some nice clothesline posts to the yard the chickens run in.

Airborne predators need open air space to be successful. Prairie is perfect. I think Bee mentioned strategic tree placement? And I think this is why.

Gypsi

 

[JenellYB]

One trick for discouraging hawks, if you have handy trees or fense posts, or can put up some light posts, is to use a big roll of twine, like kite twine, and run it back and forth and criss-crossed above the area the chickens have range in. Keep in mind hawks swoop in and swoop out, need some landing and take-off 'glide' space...things like this that interfere with that help.

 

[JenellYB]

Very accurate, and very old way....I can remember my mother, aunts, grandmothers, others checking pelvic bones when they'd be picking out a hen to butcher for dinner. Occasionally they'd find, upon butchering, eggs in early stages of development, meaning she'd been about to start laying again, but not often. Any developing eggs found inside were never wasted...if the hen was for dumplings, or there was to be dressing, they went into making those, or otherwise used. Btw, back then, no one had home freezers, a chicken was butchered when it was needed for a meal....meanwhile, they 'stored' just fine out in the chicken yard until needed!

I have never seen a hen with tight pelvic bones that was actively laying.. We have always used it as a sorting tool at processing time to keep the hens that were laying in the hen house and not in the freezer..