Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[NYREDS]

Gail Damerow (Luttmann) is a good example of a good writer being able to convince people she knows chickens. When she was Gail Luttman (Chickens in your Backyard) she actually had some chickens, but she didn't do any of the things you read about in her books. She was a neighbor and I worked at a university with her hubby of the time. I cared for her birds when they were away, so I am very aware of her chicken raising skills. . She has a writing style that appeals to a lot of people, but most the info is stuff that has been around for.......a century.

Walt

And what wasn't information she found & repackaged she made up.


ETA: Common sense seems to be more uncommon all the time.

 

[Clay Mudd]

THIS is precicely what I am trying to say. Educate yourself, and find out for yourself what works & what's B.S.! This is precicely why I spend so much time promoting READING with the therapy dogs at the library...People have gotten so lazy - thanks in large part to the internet - that they have forgotten how to glean and sort through information...

And quick, simple answers to questions leads people to ignore in-depth learning. Instead of thinking "Hey, raising some chickens would be a good idea. Let me find out what that involves..." they go buy half-dozen chicks at TSC, then join BYC and post something like, "HAI GUIZ I HAVE BABY CHICKS!!!!!! CAN I FEED THEM GERBER BABY FUDE OR WUT?"

Then, if two of the chicks live, they go set up a blog to share their vast wisdom.

 

[Beekissed]

Unfortunately, the only books in some libraries is Storey's guides....and they aren't really helpful. They tend to do what many on this forum do...make the act of raising animals seem technical or difficult. They list the percentages of this or that to feed, all kinds of medicines to give for this or that, or simply advise you take the animal to the vet for every sniffle.

When I wanted to get sheep I did research into breeds and what I needed at my place....I decided on hair sheep. Do you know how many books there are on hair sheep? Not one. When I asked the librarian, she referred me to SG to sheep, which I had already consulted and said that sheep are sheep, so anything in that book would be applicable to hair sheep as well. If that were so and sheep were sheep, then I wouldn't decide on a specific type of sheep....I'd just go and buy any old breed and apply all the things I read in the book to my sheep.

I decide on what breeds or types of animals to get to suit my husbandry style...which is to avoid using medicines for a crutch to keep them healthy. Each and every book out there advises medicine use to do so...be it for chickens, sheep, cattle, etc. They feel it is irresponsible to not advise someone to follow the pack down the road to the vet.

I want animals that can survive without a lot of artificial interference and no book out there has any information on that...if they do it's a small paragraph added as an after thought, when in truth there are many people who raise animals like I do....and that is something you won't find featured prominently in a book. Why? Because no vet is going to advocate for a book that provides information on how to avoid the vet. No website is going to promote a book that doesn't follow herd mentality, so the information in the book has to be very general and not go against the popular flow of information...if not it risks being controversial and not able to promote for sale.

This thread is about going against herd thinking and the book I am writing is the same....it will be on real information that someone can use to keep their animals productive and healthy without spending tons of money or getting involved in elaborate feeding or health care rituals.

 

[Christie Rhae]

Quote: Sorry for the long quote... was trying to figure out how to refer to this post...lol

Does anyone have any other comments about this? I am curious if it has any validity?

Except for the sterilizing part of course. The only way to sterilize is with an autoclave. I own a salon and the highest level of sanitation possible in a salon is "sanitize". The three levels from lowest to highest are 1)disinfect 2)sanitize 3) sterilize. I would think the best we could get with chickens is disinfect.

But what about the cat food/scratch part? Does that make sense to anyone?

My birds always act like the are starving. I butchered some cockerels a few weeks ago and forgot to remove their feed the night before. Their crops were totally engorged. Just huge and full of feed. These birds act like they are starving even when their crop is totally full. The cheerios analogy makes sense.

I do not feel confident that feeding my birds commercial feed is the best that I can do. I always supplement with meat scraps, boiled chopped liver, fish scraps and in a pinch a can of cat food.

Does anyone else have thoughts to add? Do chickens just always act starving? I am unable to find animal based protein feed here in Hawaii. It is all grain or soy based proteins.

 

[donrae]

Unfortunately, the only books in some libraries is Storey's guides....and they aren't really helpful. They tend to do what many on this forum do...make the act of raising animals seem technical or difficult. They list the percentages of this or that to feed, all kinds of medicines to give for this or that, or simply advise you take the animal to the vet for every sniffle.

When I wanted to get sheep I did research into breeds and what I needed at my place....I decided on hair sheep. Do you know how many books there are on hair sheep? Not one. When I asked the librarian, she referred me to SG to sheep, which I had already consulted and said that sheep are sheep, so anything in that book would be applicable to hair sheep as well. If that were so and sheep were sheep, then I wouldn't decide on a specific type of sheep....I'd just go and buy any old breed and apply all the things I read in the book to my sheep.

I decide on what breeds or types of animals to get to suit my husbandry style...which is to avoid using medicines for a crutch to keep them healthy. Each and every book out there advises medicine use to do so...be it for chickens, sheep, cattle, etc. They feel it is irresponsible to not advise someone to follow the pack down the road to the vet.

I want animals that can survive without a lot of artificial interference and no book out there has any information on that...if they do it's a small paragraph added as an after thought, when in truth there are many people who raise animals like I do....and that is something you won't find featured prominently in a book. Why? Because no vet is going to advocate for a book that provides information on how to avoid the vet. No website is going to promote a book that doesn't follow herd mentality, so the information in the book has to be very general and not go against the popular flow of information...if not it risks being controversial and not able to promote for sale.

This thread is about going against herd thinking and the book I am writing is the same....it will be on real information that someone can use to keep their animals productive and healthy without spending tons of money or getting involved in elaborate feeding or health care rituals.

I cringe when I see someone start with "Storey's says this........" . It always goes on some hugely complicated formula for lighting or protein or who knows what. I just want to scream at the poor person "It's really not that complicated!!!!" My grandmother, bless her Ozark heart, never read a book on chicken keeping. She didn't get past 6th grade. Too busy keeping chickens lol! But her birds were like most folks' grandma or great grandma--healthy, ate anything that didn't eat them first, brooded and raised babies naturally and were respectful of people. Okay, maybe she didn't get the high egg production or large carcasses, but she also never took a bird to the vet or had to buy chicks.

I just wish folks would realize it's not that complicated. But I guess making things complicated sells books, fancy coops, feeds, medications, fancy feeders and waterers, etc.

 

[therapydoglady]

When I go out to feed, and put my chickens up every evening, the 1st thing I do is milk the goats. Any milk that is not sold as raw whole milk, and is at least 3 days old is made into cheese. I make cheese every morning, and leave it hanging in cheesecloth, letting the whey drip into a pan. In the evening, that cheese is put into molds to press, and the whey is fed to the chickens. Then I feed chickens, dogs cats, horses. in that order. While the horses are eating, I clean hooves and brush. When the hens finish their whey, they are under the horses cleaning up oats that are dropped. When they are through with the oats, they'll actually try to run the dog off her food, and if the dog isn't all that hungry, they get it. I feed the cats up on a shelf in an effort to keep the skunks out of it...but that is no problem for the chickens. When all the "ancillary" food is polished off, they'll go to the run and eat chicken feed. So, when given their own choice they eat in order of preferance: 1) milk whey
2) whole oats (Mixed w/ wheat bran and canola oil)
3) 27% protein dog kibble
4) 34% protein, 13% fat cat kibble
and then, when all other choices are gone
5) lay pellets and my own concoction of 3-grain hen scratch, whole wheat,
barley and whole oats. This mixed w/ canola oil, not every day, but often. And free choice oyster shell, which they never touch.

Of course there are the scraps from the kitchen every day, but I don't count that as "Nutrition" but more as a treat. It is never consistent enough to count on to be of much benefit to them, and with that many hens, and that little piddling bit of table scraps...well.

But. Their consistant choices tells me that the bagged food that we get out here, even from a co-op isn't all that great. They have to have their grains shipped in from who knows where...(all we grow out here is alfalfa & oil.) But it's all we can get out here, and it's better than TSC has to offer. My hens are disgustingly healthy, and prolific layers. We just have to do the best we can with what we've got! Common sense- again!

 

[thedragonlady]

When I go out to feed, and put my chickens up every evening, the 1st thing I do is milk the goats. Any milk that is not sold as raw whole milk, and is at least 3 days old is made into cheese. I make cheese every morning, and leave it hanging in cheesecloth, letting the whey drip into a pan. In the evening, that cheese is put into molds to press, and the whey is fed to the chickens. Then I feed chickens, dogs cats, horses. in that order. While the horses are eating, I clean hooves and brush. When the hens finish their whey, they are under the horses cleaning up oats that are dropped. When they are through with the oats, they'll actually try to run the dog off her food, and if the dog isn't all that hungry, they get it. I feed the cats up on a shelf in an effort to keep the skunks out of it...but that is no problem for the chickens. When all the "ancillary" food is polished off, they'll go to the run and eat chicken feed. So, when given their own choice they eat in order of preferance: 1) milk whey
2) whole oats (Mixed w/ wheat bran and canola oil)
3) 27% protein dog kibble
4) 34% protein, 13% fat cat kibble
and then, when all other choices are gone
5) lay pellets and my own concoction of 3-grain hen scratch, whole wheat,
barley and whole oats. This mixed w/ canola oil, not every day, but often. And free choice oyster shell, which they never touch.

Of course there are the scraps from the kitchen every day, but I don't count that as "Nutrition" but more as a treat. It is never consistent enough to count on to be of much benefit to them, and with that many hens, and that little piddling bit of table scraps...well.

But. Their consistant choices tells me that the bagged food that we get out here, even from a co-op isn't all that great. They have to have their grains shipped in from who knows where...(all we grow out here is alfalfa & oil.) But it's all we can get out here, and it's better than TSC has to offer. My hens are disgustingly healthy, and prolific layers. We just have to do the best we can with what we've got! Common sense- again!

Somewhere in my archives I have a photo of 3 very large English Mastiffs, a crow, 4 cats, and a hen with baby chicks, all peacefully drinking whey out of a pan from my cheese making 30 years ago.You can't beat whey. Great for piggies too!

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I'm not really an OT, but you asked so I'm answering. If my birds refused to eat it, then something must be wrong with it. I'm not talking "Oh poor babies, here have treats instead" - I'm talking "You eat that or get nothing" for days and days.
Then when I saw this particular feed had no animal by-products in it. Well, Chickens aren't vegetarians. I want my feed to have animal by-products, fish meal, whathaveyou in it. Anyway, that bag was likely made somewhere thousands of miles away. Our local MG feed is made much closer and should be a lot more fresh than the Purina. The proof is, that they eat the MG, fermented or not, and they won't eat the Purina, even if fermented (which is a whole different discussion really).
For myself, the key is that the brand I mentioned is milled "locally" as in within a couple hundred miles. It's sad that I live in the 4th largest city in the United States and yet can't find a feed mill within regular driving distance that sells to the public.

ummm......gee. my chickens and ducks love Flock Raiser by Purina. The hens wouldn't eat the Layena and flat out stopped laying rather than eat it, but the ducks are not so picky. Of course, all my birds are free ranging on ~ 1 acre of pasture, mostly medium red clover, so they get all the insects they wish to catch, and all the dead flies they beat the other birds to. Now, if I can get them to eat Calf Manna during times of stress, I will have a low-labor feeding program all figured out.

 

[therapydoglady]

thedragonlady: Don't do piggies. They are the only animal on God's green earth (that I've found, anyway) that I'm afraid of. Don't care for spiders much, but not afraid of 'em. Can do without snakes, too, but I'm not afraid of them. Just want to know where they are! Esp. in my nest boxes if I'm running late gathering eggs! LOL

Yeah, my hens would rather have that whey than water, I think!

 

[therapydoglady]

P.S. thedragonlady: Would love to see your picture. I have never been owned by a Mastiff, but I know lots of them. They are wonderful dogs. One of them I know has chickens, too, & one particular hen of his picks food from the flews of his mouth...brave chicken, tolerant dog.