Chicks are twisting head all the way around, seem neuro problem????

[littlerattie]

Well, we got roughly 90 chicks and they are now about 2 weeks old.
Bedding: wood chips
Feed: chick starter
Water: fresh 2 x day
Have heat available when needed.

We have several Buff Orpingtons, Black Austrolorps, white meat birds, several Americanas, and 5 top hats (mixed breeds)

NOW... for the ????.
Two of the top hats have this CRAZY neurological something happening. When my kids go by them they twist their heads (like they are cleaning their feathers on their breast/crop area) and spastically wiggle their beaks under there.
And cheap. The grey one rolls his head off to the side and rotates the head at the same time. I mean, its head is at an IMPOSSIBLE angle! It is both twisted and rotated.
It can not stand when we put it down, but after a couple minutes will "loosen up" and walk away, for the most part, normal. If we pick it back up it will spaz again.
The yellow one doesn't seem to twist to the side as much as sticks its beak under its craw area and wiggle its beak.
Neither can control it. It reminds me of fainting goats for some reason.

Any one???

We can get pictures tomorrow of any one wants to see them. It is CRAZY looking. And I feel bad for them.

Is this something "benign" that they will "just live with", or maybe evn grow out of, or get worse???

Jayne

 

[canada-goose]

One of my "sisters" had similar symptoms. It turned out she had impacted crop. If their crops are always full, that could be the problem. They might need surgery. I hope my advice helps!

I hope they will be okay.

 

[TXmom]

Do a search for Wry Neck, and see if it sounds like your chicks. It can sometimes be a very treatable condition, caused by vitamin deficiencies. Do you have any Poly-Vi-Sol baby vitamins?

I'll do a search for you and find the right answers...I don't want to write anything wrong here...I'll be back...

 

[TXmom]

I found a thread with some useful information for you. I'll keep looking...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=180508

 

[fourfeathers]

Could be wry neck or limberneck. Can be caused by neurological problems due to head injury or skull formation in some silkies and crested or vit. deficiency. Some of the symptoms can also present as similar to botulism, which has a little different element to treatment. When I have had one with crook neck or limberneck, I have done the following as suggested in an article by Alan Stanford which I will post below. I think dlh also has one her site.
How long have you had them? Could any of the other chicks pecked them in the head? I would suggest separating these in a cage that is next to the other chicks, but where they can be treated and protected until better. Ask any questions. I have had a few with varying degrees of this, a couple that still have problems but are much improved, and several that fully recovered 100%.
Treating "Crookneck"
by Alan Stanford
Permission to share this is granted as long as you give credit to the Author

Here is my theory and therapy for what some call "limber neck" and I call crookneck. The symptoms first show as a crook in the neck. It progresses to
tucking the head, then tucking the head between the legs, then backing up, and tumbling over. It usually hits young birds but can happen at any age.

It is unclear what causes crookneck. American Silkie Bantam Club members suggest water on the brain, vitamin E deficiency, and injury to the brain that
is outside the skull and forms the knob on the top of Silkie's heads. The brain injury is the cause I feel fairly certain about.

Water on the brain was seen in a necropsy of an affected bird. Prednisone was suggested as symptomatic relief. Vitamin E and B complex are both good for neurological disorders. Selenium helps absorb vitamin E.

Here's what I do for affected birds. If started before symptoms get severe, the bird will totally recover. To give vitamin E - just cut the end off a human capsule and squirt it in the bird's mouth.

It is important to be sure the bird gets enough to eat and drink while it has this problem. Birds with severe cases of crookneck can't eat and drink enough to survive. You will need to gently place their head in the feed dish and carefully dip just the tip of the beak in water. Be careful not to dip too far into the water and to not stress the bird while trying to help.

The following is for an adult about 2 pound bird. Scale back for smaller birds.

For the first week I give

Twice a day
2.5 mg of prednisone
400 IU of vitamin E

Once a day
A piece of human vitamin B complex pill or a squirt of human liquid vitamins
Selenium (50 micrograms/day for half size juvenile for 3 days)

For the second week I give

Once a day
2.5 mg of prednisone
400 IU of vitamin E
A piece of human vitamin B complex pill or a squirt of human liquid vitamins

Every other day
Selenium (50 micrograms/day for half size juvenile for 3 days)

For the following weeks I give

Once a day
2.5 mg of prednisone
400 IU of vitamin E
A piece of human vitamin B complex pill or a squirt of human liquid vitamins

Every third day
Selenium (50 micrograms/day for half size juvenile for 3 days)

Do not abruptly stop prednisone, the swelling rebounds, decrease dose
gradually.
Vitamin E recovery can be slow; continue the vitamin E for several weeks at
least.

You can get the prednisone from a vet; just describe the problem of
swelling in
the brain probably due to injury. Yes Silkies' brains do stick out through a
hole on the top of the skull.

You can get the vitamin E, selenium, and vitamin B complex or liquid
vitamins at
any pharmacy.

To get prednisone, print the pictures at
http://www.browneggblueegg.com/HoleInHead.html
and take them to a vet. (for those unable to access this article, Alan has generously given his permission to repost the article/photos below)

 

[threehorses]

I agree with treating for Vitamin E deficiency. I also think that giving the polyvisol in addition to the E is wise. It is a good source of A, D, and E as well as riboflavin.

Give 2 drops to each bird daily by beak for a week. See if you see any symptoms decrease. The extra vitamin E can help neurological healing and new neurological paths if they need to be rebuilt.

make sure all the birds are able to eat their starter and don't dilute that feed with treats unless they serve a purpose. Feeding some yogurt or another probiotic can be useful as it helps the bacteria in the birds produce B vitamins within the bird.

 

[dlhunicorn]

Do not use polyvisol as a source of the vitE (you will need minimum a 400 IU source > below is the ingredients of the polyvisol enfamil formulation and as you see it only contains 5 IU . ) > When treating for crookneck due to suspected head injury (limberneck is when the head hangs down in flaccid semi-paralysis) then you should find a separate source for the B vitamins and not use the polyvisol as excess vit A will interfere with the uptake of vitE (crucial in this treatment).
Go to walmart/kmart or your local drugstore and look for the COMBO vitE/selenium geltab > make SURE the selenium content per tab does not exceed 50 MICROgrams (vitE needs selenium in order to be absorbed in this quantity) You should also be able to find a source for the B vitamins there. If you have polyvisol on hand and cant get to the store for a while then use the polyvisol until you can.
Please separate the "top hats' from the others... it is quite common for them to be pecked on (and always in the head area at the feathers)

Polyvisol (no iron) ingredients:
Amount per Serving (per dropperful > 1 Dropperful =1 mL )

Vitamin A 1500 IU

Vitamin C 35 mg

Vitamin D 400 IU

Vitamin E 5 IU

Thiamin (B1) 0.5 mg

Riboflavin (B2) 0.6 mg

Niacin (B3) 8 mg

Vitamin B6 0.4 mg

Vitamin B12 2 mcg

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
I wasn't aware of that, but would certainly like to learn why. Do you have some of the sources for this at your site, and if so could you point me in their direction? I would like to read the details of "why" so that I can better understand. Thank you!

I had luck with doing things this way, but certainly want people to have the most success possible so would like to tweak my advice.

Thank you.

 

[littlerattie]

OK. It for sure looks like wryneck. I have the Vit B complex, but will not be able to get the vit E until tomorrow.
Would you advise giving them a drop or two or fish oil in the mean time?
For now we are soaking some of their feed with a bit of antibiotic laced water until it is wet enough to roll into small rolls and then cut into smaller than pea size. Then we pry their beak open and poke it down their throat.
The one is able to "eat" a bit on its own, but the other one is worse and needs to be force fed.
The one that can't eat well drinks better than the one than can eat on its own.
They are alive for now! We will get Vit E tomorrow, and keep up with the B complex.
CAN THEY GET OVERDOSED ON THE B COMPLEX????
I have taken an adult Bvit and cut it into about 12 peices (some kind of powderized) and gave each of them a peice this morning, and one tonight. Should I give less, more or should that be OK??
They are only a small handful of chicken body. I am guessing MAYbe 3 oz??


Jayne

 

[threehorses]

Fish oil is usually A and D, not E. I'd hold out for the E.

By the way, don't lace water with antibiotics please. Either treat fully or don't treat. Doing otherwise encourages antibiotic resistance and doesn't treat the illness. As few antibiotics as we have available over the shelf, you don't want to lose the use of one unnecessarily. Besides, antibiotics can decrease the GOOD bacteria (which produce vitamin B) in the bird's gut and cause diarrhea and a sloughing of nutrients which could further the nutritional deficiency. So only treat if you're certain or fairly certain that there's a bacterial cause.

Nutritional deficiency is not a bacterial cause.