Chicks dying Day 18/19 - genetics?

[AbL]

I'm currently trying to hatch offspring of my young japanese bantam couple and encountering reoccuring problems on day 18/19 .
I originally set 8 eggs, 4 not fertile (young hen and rooster), 2 dying around day 10/12, I think, (maybe related to shortleg creeper gen) but two made it to lockdown. While one pipped and hatched on, Day 22, the other died after pipping internally. I heard it peep and saw internal pip on day 19.
I assisted the surviving one on day 22 when it made no progress in pipping externally, the shell seemed thicker then usual, and until now all Japanese bantams hatched on day 20, so I panicked a bite on day 22 with no progress...

A second batch of eggs (6 in total) two not fertile, two aborted during second week (Creeper-Gen?) two made it to lockdown.While both were alive day 18, today day 19 one has inernally pipped, the other seemed to have ceased to move.
I have three others hatching a couple of days later (I forgot to note when I put them in) whiche are fine for now (should be day 15-17 at least), but....

Which brings me to my question, as all eggs are frome the same couple, might there be a genetic component? I hatched sucessfully other batches this year, with the same incubator, temperature and humidity controls. Nothing changed there.

Same rooster, other hen: 3/3 hatched, none died.

The only thing I noticed, the eggshell of those batch seemed to be thicker, harder? Is that a possible problem? Is it the couples age 7 months? Seasonal issues? Nutritional deficits?

Any ideas?
I cross fingers for the five resting, but I think I already lost the second one.

 

[Egg Snatcher]

I'm currently trying to hatch offspring of my young japanese bantam couple and encountering reoccuring problems on day 18/19 .
I originally set 8 eggs, 4 not fertile (young hen and rooster), 2 dying around day 10/12, I think, (maybe related to shortleg creeper gen) but two made it to lockdown. While one pipped and hatched on, Day 22, the other died after pipping internally. I heard it peep and saw internal pip on day 19.
I assisted the surviving one on day 22 when it made no progress in pipping externally, the shell seemed thicker then usual, and until now all Japanese bantams hatched on day 20, so I panicked a bite on day 22 with no progress...

A second batch of eggs (6 in total) two not fertile, two aborted during second week (Creeper-Gen?) two made it to lockdown.While both were alive day 18, today day 19 one has inernally pipped, the other seemed to have ceased to move.
I have three others hatching a couple of days later (I forgot to note when I put them in) whiche are fine for now (should be day 15-17 at least), but....

Which brings me to my question, as all eggs are frome the same couple, might there be a genetic component? I hatched sucessfully other batches this year, with the same incubator, temperature and humidity controls. Nothing changed there.

Same rooster, other hen: 3/3 hatched, none died.

The only thing I noticed, the eggshell of those batch seemed to be thicker, harder? Is that a possible problem? Is it the couples age 7 months? Seasonal issues? Nutritional deficits?

Any ideas?
I cross fingers for the five resting, but I think I already lost the second one.

I had the same problem with my last batch of Japanese eggs I tried to hatch last month. But I was haveing some incubator problems. I had one chick looking really good, moving around and everything get all the way to piped than quite. The early quitters sound like the creeper gene the others sound like weak chicks not genetic. In my experience Japanese hatch way better under a hen rather than in and incubator. It could be the season, I’ve had less hatchable eggs this time of year, idk, I don’t know much of the science behind egg development and hatching besides heat, humidity and bam babies.

 

[Perris]

I'm currently trying to hatch offspring of my young japanese bantam couple and encountering reoccuring problems on day 18/19 .

they are classified as 'late embryonic mortality' if you want to do some internet searching on it

the eggshell of those batch seemed to be thicker, harder? Is that a possible problem?

yes. The shell can be too thick for them to break through.

Is it the couples age 7 months?

it could be. Their systems are barely up and running at that age. Typically things work better in older birds.

Nutritional deficits?

very unlikely, unless they are on a different diet, because

I hatched sucessfully other batches this year, with the same incubator, temperature and humidity controls. Nothing changed there.

Same rooster, other hen: 3/3 hatched, none died.

That makes youth or genetics the most likely candidates imo. Try again when they are both a year old, and if you get a repeat, you'll know their genetics are incompatible.

 

[HollowOfWisps]

I used to hatch a rare breed of duck that was genetically weak due to the inbreeding used to save the breed. I had similar issues so I started doing a full 2 week course of Rooster Booster before I started collecting eggs. My hatch rates went up noticeably and the ducklings were much healthier at hatch. I now do the same two week rooster booster treatment even on my chickens before collecting hatching eggs.

 

[Perris]

I used to hatch a rare breed of duck that was genetically weak due to the inbreeding used to save the breed. I had similar issues so I started doing a full 2 week course of Rooster Booster before I started collecting eggs. My hatch rates went up noticeably and the ducklings were much healthier at hatch. I now do the same two week rooster booster treatment even on my chickens before collecting hatching eggs.

both good points. I've had poor rates with rare breed chickens too. And anyone planning on breeding should get their birds onto breeder rations at least a couple of weeks before collecting eggs. Standard rations are designed to maintain growth or production of the bird eating it; they do not contain everything a bird needs to reproduce to best effect. Hence the existence of breeder rations.

 

[AbL]

they are classified as 'late embryonic mortality' if you want to do some internet searching on it

yes. The shell can be too thick for them to break through.

it could be. Their systems are barely up and running at that age. Typically things work better in older birds.

very unlikely, unless they are on a different diet, because

That makes youth or genetics the most likely candidates imo. Try again when they are both a year old, and if you get a repeat, you'll know their genetics are incompatible.

Thanks for the tips! I'll google that. It puzzlez me, because it's reoccurring. I'll continue to observe.
It is a rare color and birds are seldom around here, so I was kind of in. hurry to reproduce. Anyway, I won't incubate again before end of January, so they have time to mature!

 

[AbL]

I used to hatch a rare breed of duck that was genetically weak due to the inbreeding used to save the breed. I had similar issues so I started doing a full 2 week course of Rooster Booster before I started collecting eggs. My hatch rates went up noticeably and the ducklings were much healthier at hatch. I now do the same two week rooster booster treatment even on my chickens before collecting hatching eggs.

I tried to find informations about special breeding feed or supplemnts for breeding, but nearly all products are for increasing laying not quality breeding. I tried to add vitamins to the drinking water, but I'm unsure if the takein is sufficently to ake à change.

 

[AbL]

both good points. I've had poor rates with rare breed chickens too. And anyone planning on breeding should get their birds onto breeder rations at least a couple of weeks before collecting eggs. Standard rations are designed to maintain growth or production of the bird eating it; they do not contain everything a bird needs to reproduce to best effect. Hence the existence of breeder rations.

What designates breeder rations? I tried to find special feed for breeding birds, but local suplliers are all about feeding the avarage layer hen. Even their "special chick feed" is not really making a difference in growth and health.

 

[Perris]

What designates breeder rations? I tried to find special feed for breeding birds, but local suplliers are all about feeding the avarage layer hen. Even their "special chick feed" is not really making a difference in growth and health.

something like this
https://www.wadswick.co.uk/shop/pet.../heygates-game-and-poultry-breeder-pellets-18

 

[Altairsky]

If you feel like doing it, you could try to do an egg necropsy and see if the chicks have obvious malformations or malpositions.