Chipping away at rights...

[HarlansHollowFarms]

Quote:
Maybe that comparison is a bit off, but the comparison of driving and creating CO is not. If you drive a car, or ride a bus..ect. you are involve in the creation of CO, which is proven to be detrimental to everyones health.
But, I personally am more concerned with business owns right to run their business as they see fit without Gov. interference.

I understand people who say they don't want government interference, that people should be able to do with their business what they want but don't you think that is an oversimplification? I mean, what if I want to run a factory and employing children is the cheapest way to do it? What if I decide making my factory safe for my employees isn't economical for me? Should I be allowed to do what I want in those cases? How about if I want to put out skin magazines and I want all the pictures to be taken in an outdoor setting... should I be allowed to go to the local park and have all the poses done on the playground? Saying you don't want the government to interfere, just isn't feasible. There are just too many people to say that we should all be able to just use our own judgement as to what is acceptable, it will never work.

N, it is not over simplified. The thing in your examples are already illegal, and if you read back, I said earlier that if the gov. wants to banned smoking in businesses it should be made illegal. They will not do that, why....$$.
So, since it in not illegal to smoke, I should have the right to allow it or not in my own business.

 

[ksacres]

(mjtexan, not HHA)

 

[Lunachick]

Here in NJ there's no smoking in bars or restaurants. But the casinos.....well of course!

 

[HennysMom]

Quote:
Most places are NOT non-smoking - most restaurants are not non-smoking. Maybe where you live they are.. however here in VA where I live - most places are smoking.

Owners business depends upon clientele. As I said, you arent going to please everyone all of the time. I dont agree with enforcing certain things however... I shouldnt have to breathe in someone elses habit because they choose to smoke and the owner chooses NOT to install separate ventilation. That is catering to one type of clientele and not the other.

Not going to win in either situation I'm afraid.

I think as a business owner myself, I have every right to cater to whom ever I want. I do not need the Gov. telling me that I have to cater to anyone. Ever read the sign 'We have the Right to refuse Anyone' I don't need a reason not to cater to you, that should be my right, if you don't cater to smokers, that should be your right.
We all win when are rights to run our business as we see fit are not infringed upon.
Do you drive, CO is bad for my health.....

We're not talking about cars though.... are we?

and Big Business makes more CO than private autos on the road any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I pay emissions taxes here, my car has to pass emissions and if it doesnt I must pay up to $600.00 in repairs before I can even pass inspection here in VA - and then they'll "waive" it, but I'm still out $600.00 in repairs to pass that test. however - the counties surrounding me do not have to pay to have emissions testing done. Why? they drive just like I do and drive into my county. Should this county ban those drivers from coming into my county because they dont have to pass emissions???

Same principal as the business owner vetching about having to do whatever is required by law. Do you complain when the health dept comes in and inspects and you dont pass because they say "NOPE - not good enough?"

As citizens of the US - each and every one of us have our rights "infringed upon" daily... dont like it - get out there and vote your Gov's, Senators and Congressmen/women out of thier seats and put those that make a difference INTO them. It is what it is...wont change unless we make it change, period.

But you're correct - business owners have a right to cater to whom they want - howeve r when it comes to laws - they must abide by them and they have no say in that matter. Thats what really is the issue here and I understand your frustration fully - as I've said for the 4th time now.

 

[mom'sfolly]

I'm just going to play devil's advocate here. The OP said businesses should be allowed to decide if they will allow smoking or not, particularly in reference to bars. My question is does that statement apply to all businesses....should grocery stores, clothing outlets, airports, churches, private schools, bookstores, hospitals, nursing homes, prisons, hotels, etc all be allowed to decide to allow smoking?

As a non-smoker, I love to be able to go out and come home smelling like me, not an ashtray. I also remember moving to NY state and grocery shopping for the first time. There were people smoking in the store, flicking ashes on the veggies, putting out cigarettes on the floor, and filling the air with smoke. EEEWWWWW!

I also think some of the laws are about workers rights, not to be exposed to second hand smoke.

 

[mjdtexan]

mom'sfolly :

I'm just going to play devil's advocate here. The OP said businesses should be allowed to decide if they will allow smoking or not, particularly in reference to bars. My question is does that statement apply to all businesses....should grocery stores, clothing outlets, airports, churches, private schools, bookstores, hospitals, nursing homes, prisons, hotels, etc all be allowed to decide to allow smoking?

As a non-smoker, I love to be able to go out and come home smelling like me, not an ashtray. I also remember moving to NY state and grocery shopping for the first time. There were people smoking in the store, flicking ashes on the veggies, putting out cigarettes on the floor, and filling the air with smoke. EEEWWWWW!

I also think some of the laws are about workers rights, not to be exposed to second hand smoke.

 

[AngieChick]

They are absolutely about workers rights. There was a time when there was smoking in teachers' lounges, in fact there was smoking in virtually every workplace imaginable. Laws changed that. There is no smoking in any public building in my town, including bars, and I can tell you that the bars still do amazing business. I really doubt that business will drop off because of the change in policy. In fact, people who avoided bars before because of the smoke may go to them now. Smokers can still smoke, but outside in smoking areas. They get their fix while chatting with the other smokers then head back in to the bar/restaurant.

When we do things that have a severe negative impact on others (ie: death) we do have to follow laws to mitigate that impact. That's the way it works. That's why there are so many laws to guide driving, one person's choices can have a huge effect on others. I know change is scary, and that smokers can feel under attack at times, but I really don't think it's anything personal. People just don't like having their lives at risk because someone else prefers to sit and smoke in the bar or at their desk rather then step outside for a moment.

 

[Chickenmaven]

Oh, please, with the "people can choose where to work" arguments. Twenty years ago, I waited tables in college. I would have had to work twice as many hours in retail for the same income. I wouldn't have had time for school. In order to earn a fair wage, I had to agree to (sometimes) work in the smoking section. These are the kinds of concessions that smokers want to force on non-smokers. "You can just work someplace else"? That is some whacky reasoning. Should one person's habit should guide others' career choices and options.
I like to drink wine. That is my little vice. I do not have an issue with booze-free playgrounds or churches or malls or workplaces or restaurants. That is because I am not such an ADDICT that this is an issue. My mother is ADDICTED to cigarrettes and she is dying. She is 64 yrs. old, cannot walk one block to have an icecream with her grandkids. Her smoking is analogous to other people's heroin habits.
I support smoke-free public places because I should not have to participate in anyone's lifethreatening addiction.

 

[rooster0209]

I am a non smoker but I agree, our rights are being chipped away, a little bit at a time.

I got in a resturant and I dont care where I sit. It can be bar, smoking or non-smoking, I just want to sit, eat and enjoy a drink. I don't like smoke being blown in my face or a dirty ash tray left out for me to smell, but its your life and its my life. The government doesnt need to get involved.

The part that really gets me, is the lung cancer law suits. No one forced you to smoke, you know the risks. (Yes I am aware that non smokers can get lung cancer). Read the warning on the pack. It only makes sense to me, if you smoke and get cancer and the tobacco companies give you a settlement...then why I drink and drive (which I dont') but if...I get a DUI, then the alcohol companies should give me a settlement too. After all, there is a warning label there too.

 

[HarlansHollowFarms]

Quote:
Oh, Please....Do you drice a car? Your killing me!
I am a non-smoker, by the way.

Edited to make a snide comment.