Chocolate Serama Breeders - dun and blue can be included here as well

[Lorilyn Farms]

These are the roosters again

 

[smoothmule]

You're probably like me and holding on to your eggs so you can pick and choose what you cull. Some of my babies are coming out extraordinary! In your opinion, what gene do you think created this chick? I have blue and silver, no porcelain, plus whatever I have in the 3 serama roosters. Here's the chick, you;ve seen it before. It's such a pale, soft gray.

You know, you really may end up having to wait till they shed the juvenile feathers to see what the color will be. Mature feathering should come in around 6 months or so

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

New pictures of the soft gray. in natural light, she's tan, not gray.

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

And this is the roo I suspect might be chocolate or dun or some other black modifier, definitely not sure of anything at this point.

 

[smoothmule]

And this is the roo I suspect might be chocolate or dun or some other black modifier, definitely not sure of anything at this point.

He is pumpkin, not chocolate or dun. Look up the pumpkin hulsey's and you'll see a lot of them this color. I have this color in my Serama's. Sure enough looks like chocolate tail feathers but the body color tells me differently. This is a very typical pumpkin color. I understand why you think he may have the chocolate gene but it's pretty obvious to me that he does not.

This all said, pumpkin is GOrgeous and not to be considered inferior to chocolate or dun. The fact is, it's phenotype that we look at and not genetics. This color can be recreated just like other colors. When you have a color you like, then you should learn to understand it and repeat it to make more of them. It's a visually pleasing color and it doesn't matter what color it is unless there is a reason for wanting chocolate or dun, in which case, you need to get some duns and/or chocolates from a reliable source and learn to breed for it.

If you can get past the phenotype, and learn about dun and chocolate and pumpkin, you can really control what you are producing and learn what you like and how to make more of them.

Here is a splash pumpkin chick, I'm pretty sure that is what your pretty chick is that you were thinking is dun. (splash pumpkin means the chick got genes that make pumpkin from both parents so it's like saying homozygous for pumpkin)

 

[smoothmule]

He is pumpkin, not chocolate or dun. Look up the pumpkin hulsey's and you'll see a lot of them this color. I have this color in my Serama's. Sure enough looks like chocolate tail feathers but the body color tells me differently. This is a very typical pumpkin color. I understand why you think he may have the chocolate gene but it's pretty obvious to me that he does not.

This all said, pumpkin is GOrgeous and not to be considered inferior to chocolate or dun. The fact is, it's phenotype that we look at and not genetics. This color can be recreated just like other colors. When you have a color you like, then you should learn to understand it and repeat it to make more of them. It's a visually pleasing color and it doesn't matter what color it is unless there is a reason for wanting chocolate or dun, in which case, you need to get some duns and/or chocolates from a reliable source and learn to breed for it.

If you can get past the phenotype, and learn about dun and chocolate and pumpkin, you can really control what you are producing and learn what you like and how to make more of them.

Here is a splash pumpkin chick, I'm pretty sure that is what your pretty chick is that you were thinking is dun. (splash pumpkin means the chick got genes that make pumpkin from both parents so it's like saying homozygous for pumpkin)

Here is one of my cocks, this is not chocolate or dun, he is also pumpkin. I have a fig pudding that is out of this cock, I need to take some photos now that he's colored out with his mature feathering. You would think he was chocolate too. There are so many chocolate phenotype look a likes which makes chocolate and dun very hard to understand for some when you can't get past the "look"

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

He is pumpkin, not chocolate or dun. Look up the pumpkin hulsey's and you'll see a lot of them this color. I have this color in my Serama's. Sure enough looks like chocolate tail feathers but the body color tells me differently. This is a very typical pumpkin color. I understand why you think he may have the chocolate gene but it's pretty obvious to me that he does not.

This all said, pumpkin is GOrgeous and not to be considered inferior to chocolate or dun. The fact is, it's phenotype that we look at and not genetics. This color can be recreated just like other colors. When you have a color you like, then you should learn to understand it and repeat it to make more of them. It's a visually pleasing color and it doesn't matter what color it is unless there is a reason for wanting chocolate or dun, in which case, you need to get some duns and/or chocolates from a reliable source and learn to breed for it.

If you can get past the phenotype, and learn about dun and chocolate and pumpkin, you can really control what you are producing and learn what you like and how to make more of them.

Here is a splash pumpkin chick, I'm pretty sure that is what your pretty chick is that you were thinking is dun. (splash pumpkin means the chick got genes that make pumpkin from both parents so it's like saying homozygous for pumpkin)

It's good to hear that we are making progress on understanding the pumpkin gene. I love the coloration. And I didn't know there was a splash version of it, that it acts like andalusian blue and dun. those birds are, in fact, looking very much like the soft tan/gray chick I have. that explains his coloring!

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

Does pumpkin dilute both red and black?

 

[smoothmule]

Does pumpkin dilute both red and black?

Yes, and here is that cockerel I was telling you about that is also pumpkin...... many breeders are calling this color chocolate too.... It is Not
I am determined to teach the difference in recessive chocolate, dun and these other colors that look like chocolate. In game birds, this color is called Fig Pudding and is based on a pumpkin diluted base













There is SUCH a resistance from some people to accept that their bird is not chocolate. I don't understand that. I've even been told I was just "jealous" of their chocolate and in the Facebook Serama Auction group, I was nearly thrown out by a group of people who seemed to think I was "attacking" someone because I argued that the cockerel listed as chocolate that was up for auction was not chocolate. Not even close. I was the one attacked so I thought, good enough, it's buyer beware.... if they wanted to pay more for a cockerel they refused to believe could not be chocolate, "go right ahead". He was essentially the same color as my cockerel. Whom, I'm pretty sure I could have listed there as chocolate and sold for more than he is worth because of that. It's ridiculous. I try to educate but some people are so argumentative that they just can't learn.

I had chocolate for a long time and still would not admit in public that they were chocolate until I could breed them and prove it to myself. Those who will say "mine are a different type chocolate, probably a mutation" are people who don't know beans, lol. They will argue for the sake of argument I'm afraid. There is nothing wrong with a healthy disagreement and debate. Genetics are often debated but rules are rules and when you finally get those first real chocolates, you'll wonder why you even thought that pretty pumpkin rooster could have been chocolate.

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

I guess I would be happy with the phenotype. My goal is brown based mille fleurs that breed true. And citron millies that breed true. I like to tell people what diluter they are getting and let them decide. I wonder what pumpkin and dun would look like. Or pumpkin/chocolate. Henk? Niclandia? Smooth? You got some?