Choosing the correct food

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Here is the table for nutrient requirements based on the dally feed intake.
https://www.msdvetmanual.com/poultr...t-poultry/nutritional-requirements-of-poultry

Very interesting is that brown egg layers (like I have) require quite more protein, and main (?) amino acids at the feed rate of 0.22 lbs/hen/day:
White egg layers / Brown egg layers
Protein 15% / 18%
Lysine 0.69% / 0.84%
Methionine 0.3% / 0.36%
Tryptophan 0.16% / 0.19%

I assume that is because in general they are heavier birds.
 
This Info adds further confusion about the required nutrients. the book by national research council in 1994 states that brown egg layers need to have these nutrients (w/o saying how much daily consumption per hen is):
CP 16%, LY 0.49%, ME 0.21%, TRP 0.11.
 
Yup. There remains much disagreement in the industry. and there's variation in methodologies and assumptions. Even where methodologies (for testing amino acids content) are the same, the study assumptions can alter the outcomes.

The conditions in which a battery hen is raised, for instance, and the way its managed, will have definite impact on their dietary needs as compared to a backyard hen you plan to keep for some number of years. Likewise on breed - most of these studies are designed around leghorns, CornishX, or a commercial layer hybrid (RSL/BSL typically) - the needs of a chicken that takes far longer to be productive (such as my Brahma) or that produce much less frequently (ditto the Brahma) are likely to be much different.

Consider the classic Leghorn. Large to Jumbo white eggs, 6 days a week, very early maturing to about 4.5# hen. Lots of those in backyard flocks, "old reliable".

Now consider other backyard flock birds with white eggs, the Phoenix and the Sultan. Small white eggs, maybe one every two to three days or so, slow to mature, eventually gets to 4# with a whole lot of pretty feathers. Really, birds to show off to the neighbors, not for production.

No one is going to propose they need the same diet, yet all are "white egg layers".

You do your research, reach your own conclusions, feed your flock, and monitor the results. Its all any of us can do.
 
U_Stormcrow said:
Yup. There remains much disagreement in the industry. and there's variation in methodologies and assumptions. Even where methodologies (for testing amino acids content) are the same, the study assumptions can alter the outcomes.

The conditions in which a battery hen is raised, for instance, and the way its managed, will have definite impact on their dietary needs as compared to a backyard hen you plan to keep for some number of years. Likewise on breed - most of these studies are designed around leghorns, CornishX, or a commercial layer hybrid (RSL/BSL typically) - the needs of a chicken that takes far longer to be productive (such as my Brahma) or that produce much less frequently (ditto the Brahma) are likely to be much different.

Consider the classic Leghorn. Large to Jumbo white eggs, 6 days a week, very early maturing to about 4.5# hen. Lots of those in backyard flocks, "old reliable".

Now consider other backyard flock birds with white eggs, the Phoenix and the Sultan. Small white eggs, maybe one every two to three days or so, slow to mature, eventually gets to 4# with a whole lot of pretty feathers. Really, birds to show off to the neighbors, not for production.

No one is going to propose they need the same diet, yet all are "white egg layers".

You do your research, reach your own conclusions, feed your flock, and monitor the results. Its all any of us can do.
Click to expand...
These are good points. Additionally, nutrition intake depends on the quantity of the feed intake. I found that only NRC, 1994 publication gives the nutrition percentage based on the 100 gm/hen/day intake. So for those three listed sources the nutrition suggested is in these ranges:
CP:15-18%, LY:0.52-0.84%, ME:0.22-0.36%, TRP:0.12-0.19%.

Unfortunately dealer didn’t get the right answer from Kalmbach (“if you mix 1/4 122 supplement with 3/4 corn, you will have all proper nutrients”). Which is not correct. He will try to go to Kalmbach again and speak to their nutritionist.

These are published info for Kalmbach 122 supplement, for yellow corn and oats:
K122: CP-44%, LY-2.75%, ME-0.75%, TRP- X.XX%
YCORN: CP-9.42%, LY-0.265%, ME-0.197%, TRP-0.067%
OATS: CP-18.9%, LY-0.701%, ME-0.312%, TRP-0.234%

Prices of these, by 50 lbs/bag, based on local feed&seed store are:
K122-$0.44/lb, Yellow corn-$0.16/lb and Oats-$0.30/lb.

Mix of 1/4 K122 plus 3/4 corn would yield:
CP-18%, LY-0.89%, ME-0.34%, TRP- 0.05%+x.xx% at the price of $0.23/lb.
Apparently TRP is below suggested value.

Mix of 1/4 K122, plus 1/4 oats plus 1/2 corn would yield:
CP-19.9%, LY-1.0%, ME-0.364%, TRP-0.09%+x.xx% at the price of $0.27/lb.
Almost double TRP over the mix with 75% corn.

Mix of 1/4 K122, plus 1/2 oats plus 1/4 corn would yield:
CP-21.8%, LY-1.1%, ME-0.39%, TRP-0.133+x.xx% at the price of
$0.30/lb.
Just at the low end of the range of TRP requirements.

Mix of 1/4 K122 plus 3/4 oats would yield:
CP-23.7, LY-1.21%, ME-0.42%, TRP-0.18%+x.xx% at the price of $0.32/lb.
This mix has the TRP value at the high end of requirements.

The mix with 3/4 oats meets TRP but quite exceeds all other requirements and is the most expensive mix. Wonder if some of the higher values might be detrimental including quite high CP.

I still will wait to see if the local dealer can find if possibly K122 has some TRP. Off hand, would shoot for the TRP in the range of 0.15-0.17%.

Any comments are welcome.

BTW, U_Stormcrow, if you know your TRP I would love to know it.
 
Rodrad said:
These are good points. Additionally, nutrition intake depends on the quantity of the feed intake. I found that only NRC, 1994 publication gives the nutrition percentage based on the 100 gm/hen/day intake. So for those three listed sources the nutrition suggested is in these ranges:
CP:15-18%, LY:0.52-0.84%, ME:0.22-0.36%, TRP:0.12-0.19%.

Unfortunately dealer didn’t get the right answer from Kalmbach (“if you mix 1/4 122 supplement with 3/4 corn, you will have all proper nutrients”). Which is not correct. He will try to go to Kalmbach again and speak to their nutritionist.

These are published info for Kalmbach 122 supplement, for yellow corn and oats:
K122: CP-44%, LY-2.75%, ME-0.75%, TRP- X.XX%
YCORN: CP-9.42%, LY-0.265%, ME-0.197%, TRP-0.067%
OATS: CP-18.9%, LY-0.701%, ME-0.312%, TRP-0.234%

Prices of these, by 50 lbs/bag, based on local feed&seed store are:
K122-$0.44/lb, Yellow corn-$0.16/lb and Oats-$0.30/lb.

Mix of 1/4 K122 plus 3/4 corn would yield:
CP-18%, LY-0.89%, ME-0.34%, TRP- 0.05%+x.xx% at the price of $0.23/lb.
Apparently TRP is below suggested value.

Mix of 1/4 K122, plus 1/4 oats plus 1/2 corn would yield:
CP-19.9%, LY-1.0%, ME-0.364%, TRP-0.09%+x.xx% at the price of $0.27/lb.
Almost double TRP over the mix with 75% corn.

Mix of 1/4 K122, plus 1/2 oats plus 1/4 corn would yield:
CP-21.8%, LY-1.1%, ME-0.39%, TRP-0.133+x.xx% at the price of
$0.30/lb.
Just at the low end of the range of TRP requirements.

Mix of 1/4 K122 plus 3/4 oats would yield:
CP-23.7, LY-1.21%, ME-0.42%, TRP-0.18%+x.xx% at the price of $0.32/lb.
This mix has the TRP value at the high end of requirements.

The mix with 3/4 oats meets TRP but quite exceeds all other requirements and is the most expensive mix. Wonder if some of the higher values might be detrimental including quite high CP.

I still will wait to see if the local dealer can find if possibly K122 has some TRP. Off hand, would shoot for the TRP in the range of 0.15-0.17%.

Any comments are welcome.

BTW, U_Stormcrow, if you know your TRP I would love to know it.
Click to expand...
i don't, sadly
 
U_Stormcrow said:
i don't, sadly
Click to expand...
Wow, I am surprised. You know so much about nutritions, and related papers, nutrients of various grain, etc. plus you are buying a ton of feed (well not quite a full ton) every two months, and with all that you couldn’t manage to get TRP values.

Since, as you told me, USDA Doesn’t require that TRP is put on label I just wonder if the feed manufacturers even add any TRP (or they just don’t test it for TRP).

I will report the results of the second attempt of a local dealer to get info from Kalmbach about TRP in their 122p supplement.
 
That’s great.

What is your best understanding, about the feed you buy (and recently moved to non Soy and non GMO components) how much TRP is there?!
What your dealer says about it?
 
Last edited:
Rodrad said:
That’s great. What is your best understanding, about the feed you buy (and recently moved to non Soy and non GMO components) how much TRP is there?!
What your dealer says about it?
Click to expand...
I have another question. Since my proposed mix of 25% Kalmbach 122 supplement plus 75% oats would result in quite high CP (23.7%). I would think that I can reduce daily feed rate. The highest CP requirements (based on 3 sources) Is 18% at feed rate of 100 gm/hen/day.

What you think if I reduce the feed rate by ratio of 18/23.7=0.76, so it would be 76 gm/hen/day?!
 
Last edited:

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