Chronic weak egg problem (thin shells, or no shells). How to fix??

[kayri]

That is very interesting, it sounds like what my american game bird, Ruby, had or has again, but in the articles dated 2006, it says that it hasn't been found in the US or Canada. Does anyone know if this has this changed since then? It sounds like it doesn't hurt the bird? Am I reading this right? What if the egg breaks inside her? that can't be good. . .

 

[Malpower]

I have a vet coming tomorrow about 5:30 pm -- from info the tech passed on to him, he seems to think it's egg binding and is coming prepared to give Lucy a shot of Lupon (sp??) -- but after reading symptoms of egg binding, I'm not so sure -- her symptoms are more like the egg drop syndrome. I guess I'll know more about both by tomorrow evening. Egg binding can be pretty serious I gather and needs immediate attention by you or a vet, don't think the EDS is the same level of seriousness.

 

[kayri]

Oh here is my experience with Lupron- it might work for you but it didn't work for me.
I had kind of a long thread on a few months ago "swollen abdomen? diagnosed- egg yolk peritonitis 4yr old last-update by kayri" but here is the synopsis

My 4 year old black sex-link Midnight had a swollen abdomen and I took her to 2 vets who both diagnosed egg yolk- peritonitis. . The first vet I talked to drained about 320 ml of fluid from her abdominal cavity. It was opaque and yellowish. She also put her on Baytril (antibiotic) and and Metacam (am anti- inflammatory) (total cost $120). She said these were temporary measures and i should check with the second vet for either a hormone or surgical intervention. I did and he recommended a hormonal intervention to prevent her from ovulationg (3 shots of Lupron, 1 week apart), but said we would know if it was effective after about 6 months. he did not recommend the surgical intervention because he said it was easy to give a chicken a hysterectomy, but very difficult to get rid of the egg yolk once it has been infused through the abdominal cavity. He said our only hope was to prevent any further ovulation and hope that she would absorb the egg yolk. We would know within 6 months. (total cost for his visit plus the 3 shots of hormone $225). I gave her the 3 shots, he drained her abdomen one more time, but two weeks after the last shot we had her put down because she was so weak and uncomfortable and her abdomen was swelling up again. I don't think I'd do the shot thing again, but I had to try once.

There is a thread on internal laying going around, "Tell me about your internal layers" and that has a lot of info on it.

good luck, keep us posted.

 

[Malpower]

Yuck, that all sounds horrid for you and the hen!

Well, as my earlier posts described (in too much detail no doubt

) Lucy has simply been laying thin shelled to no shelled eggs, dropping what appear to be just yolks from her roost at night and so forth. I really haven't seen any symptoms that look like she's having difficulty laying, or egg-bound, just that what she lays is mal-formed. We may not get a Lupron shot afterall. I'm voting for egg drop syndrome but guess the vet will give me far more info tomorrow -- who knows what he'll find....hopefully not something like what your poor girl went through.

 

[feathersnuggles]

Egg Drop Syndrome, from what I've read, is quite rare in the US. It's more common in Europe & the UK. Even there, it isn't widespread.

My guess is this. If you're doing all the obvious things right, like supplementing calcium in the form of oyster shell or other calcium carbonate source, providing high quality feed/fresh water, not feeding too many treats, etc., I'd guess your hen could use the oviduct maintenance that a good, hard molt provides. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to wait for that molt. I have one hen with the same "on-again, off-again" shell problems as yours. She's about 14 months old and she started laying in October. This spring we saw her problems begin. I've been reading for a couple months now, and I'm holding out hope that her first good molt will do the trick and get her plumbing back into shape. In the meantime, I'm grateful for her good shell days, and I cross my fingers for her when she lays the other kind.

 

[Malpower]

Quote:
Hi feathersnuggles!

We meet again over this subject!

You were a big help before -- and I'm hoping that molt might be all she needs, that would be great. She couldn't be eating better, all that has been covered. As you remember perhaps, I was so thrilled a couple of weeks ago when she started laying again after the "emergency" Tums remedy you gave me -- but that didn't last long. She has never molted and she'll be two in August -- has been laying non-stop for 14-16 months. I sure hope that might be the answer. I'm pretty sure it's not egg binding and with your comment about it being rare I'm even more sure! Thanks for that! Of course, the vet's office says it's very common around here -- so I'm confused! I guess I'll just wait for the vet to show up later today and discuss all this and I'll have something to report. Sure don't want her getting a shot for egg binding if that's not the problem!

 

[feathersnuggles]

Hi Malpower!

Yes, we meet over the same topic, again, LOL! Your vet says it's "egg binding"? But that usually means an egg is stuck. I'm confused? Here's a wiki definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_binding

Anyway, I hope you let us know what the vet says, later today. In the meantime, I'll pass along some of the links I've been reading, which have substantially bolstered my confidence that this soft egg issue MAY be linked with the first laying season prior to a first hard molt. Check out the OP in the posts below. She's in the UK, where EDS is not as rare as in the US. Last year, springtime, her bird was laying the same soft egg patterns as we have been seeing in ours. OP was jumping through hoops trying to figure it out and "cure" it. Reading through these and comparing with some of OP's posts this year, I can see the cure was finally found in her hen's first hard molt. Probably in the fall.

So, based on this, I will assume that next year this time, we all will be reassuring others on BYC about their first season's softies! LOL!
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=153243
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1895729

ETA: corrected a link above.

 

[Malpower]

Quote:
Yes, I agree, that confused me too. I suspect the tech person didn't relay my message to vet properly -- I haven't talked with the vet personally yet but Lucy definitely doesn't have egg binding symptoms! I hope this is just a matter of the usual inaccurate communications or passing on of messages that seems to happen frequently these days!! [grumble, grumble!]

Anyway, I hope you let us know what the vet says, later today.

I definitely will do that! Thanks for the links -- much of what transpired sounded like "our" problems, yes! She had some of those egg yolks in "aspic" -- well, Lucy has had just one as far as I know. I should probably go look around in the bushes and rest of the yard since she hasn't laid or dropped anything for a couple of days, that I know of. This is what Lucy's last egg looked like:

Anyway, I wonder if she can be driven into a molt!! I really was always a little miffed that she didn't ever molt during fall/winter and just kept on laying when the other girls had a bit of a "vacation" altho they looked rather pitiful and naked while she retained her lovely feathers!

So, based on this, I will assume that next year this time, we all will be reassuring others on BYC about their first season's softies! LOL!

Wouldn't that be lovely! I'd love to be able to share some useful info with others for a change!!!

I shall return later with a report on the vet visit! Fingers crossed!​

 

[kayri]

looking forward to your vet report. I've gotten 3 shellless eggs in 3 days from Ruby, but she looks fine and is happy and running around. As long as she is doing that, I guess I'm Ok with it, I do just worry that one will break inside her.

 

[Malpower]

OK, the very nice young vet just left -- I'm overjoyed to have found one that would come to the house and also be able to capture my hen! I lured her with live meal worms!

No egg binding, no dropped egg syndrome..........

She has a prolapse and he pushed it back in, said to watch it, it may stay in, but if not he could do minor surgery and sew it back in. Results of the super large eggs she has been laying and the straining! She's also very underweight -- not my imagination, I thought she was looking smaller!

Didn't find any evidence of any egg inside her or peritonitis or other scary stuff. I'm taking a stool sample in tomorrow, so he can check and make sure there are no critters in her and the others.

The main thing is, with her malformed, thin to no-shelled eggs, and that last one "in aspic," is that she's just not manufacturing enough calcium and her system needs to rest for a couple of months at least. He gave me some Neo-Calglucon (calcium glubionate) which is a syrup which I can add to yogurt or just put on bread and feed to her (or squirt down her throat but I can't hold her and do that alone) - 1.5 cc a day. He also gave her an injection into a muscle and darned if I can remember what that was for -- will find out tomorrow and post if it's important!

He's been trying to get Lupron in since yesterday, hopes it will be in tomorrow and will send a tech over to give Lucy an injection. He says this will stop her ovulating and hopes she'll stop for about 6 weeks or so and her system will get a much needed rest -- he said she may or may not molt, but main thing is for her system to get a rest. If she starts laying anything before 6 weeks -- good eggs or not -- he wants to give her another shot.

He said to keep throwing the oyster shell flour on the laying crumbles, pellets and other feed -- no harm for them all to get extra calcium. All other stuff, veggies, cheese, fruit, meal worms, greens are just fine. Hopefully this calcium syrup and the Lupron will help get her system back on track.

So, I'm hoping for the best and will let you all know what happens -- I hope some of this might be helpful to the rest of you with similar problems! I'm a bit wrung out but relieved to finally have something done about this at last! And now have a vet that makes house calls and the price was most reasonable! Now I can eat dinner!