Cinnamon Queen Thread!

[Michael OShay]

What I am trying to say is that there should be consistencies in appellations. To me, a Cinnamon Queen is the RIRxSLW or NHRxSLW hybrid when you get down to specifics of RSL lineage. And when you start combining for a RSL I do believe you can visibly tell the various breed combinations apart, so it would be nice to have some uniformity in naming (truth in advertising, as it were).

I agree that there should be consistencies in appellations. The problem is that there isn't, and because RSLs are hybrids, there likely never will be. As you stated yourself, "you would no more call a RIRxRIW a Cinnamon Queen than I would call a GSD x poodle a labradoodle," but that doesn't mean that others will always agree with you. My point is, when a member purchases a RIR X RIW cross that is marketed as a Cinnamon Queen (Cackle's for example), you cannot state with a universally recognized poultry governing authority behind you that this is not a Cinnamon Queen. Those who call RIR X RIW Cinnamon Queens have as much right and authority to do so as those who call RIR X SLW or HNR X SLW Cinnamon Queens. I agree with you that it's unfortunate, and I would love to see the APA officially recognize certain commercialized hybrids, but until they do so (which I think will be never), this kind of confusion over the RSL labels will continue to exist. That's why when members post their RSLs for identification on the What Breed or Gender is This? section, most of us who ID them on a regular basis simply reply that they are RSLs. Fortunately the problem is a little less compounded with the Black Sex Links, since all of the major hatcheries use RIR X BR for the cross.

 

[Peep_Show]

At some point, however, somebody somewhere delineated the certain crosses with the names. I don't think the folks at Poultry Magazine in their research just made it up, they have specific names for specific crosses! However, I do think the hatcheries took the shortcut of ignoring what was an attempt to categorize certain combinations of RSL for the convenience sake of just calling them whatever they wanted to....be it marketing, laziness, ignorance or whatever. I don't have the information handy, but it would be nice to know what the sources are for the *assumption* that RIR/NHRxSLW=CQ.... I've thought it was that combo for a good long time, longer than Mr. Shrider's Poultry Magazine article.

In no way did I mean to disparage anybody's bird or their right to call their bird whatever they want. But -- dang it -- if I send somebody to the store to get a nice merlot blend, they better not bring me a chianti red blend and tell me that it's all the same because it's red wine! Get the difference?

Frankly, I think the hatcheries have come across looking pretty silly with their RSL marketing. A savvy consumer can tell that they often haven't a clue what they're breeding, and because it's a RSL slapping whatever label on it they feel. And so unless somebody's seriously into branding, one hatchery's Cinnamon Queen is totally unlike another's...which is unfortunate for the consumer who, if used to one particular cross of bird, is sold another bill of goods.

 

[Michael OShay]

At some point, however, somebody somewhere delineated the certain crosses with the names. I don't think the folks at Poultry Magazine in their research just made it up, they have specific names for specific crosses! However, I do think the hatcheries took the shortcut of ignoring what was an attempt to categorize certain combinations of RSL for the convenience sake of just calling them whatever they wanted to....be it marketing, laziness, ignorance or whatever. I don't have the information handy, but it would be nice to know what the sources are for the *assumption* that RIR/NHRxSLW=CQ.... I've thought it was that combo for a good long time, longer than Mr. Shrider's Poultry Magazine article.

In no way did I mean to disparage anybody's bird or their right to call their bird whatever they want. But -- dang it -- if I send somebody to the store to get a nice merlot blend, they better not bring me a chianti red blend and tell me that it's all the same because it's red wine! Get the difference?

Frankly, I think the hatcheries have come across looking pretty silly with their RSL marketing. A savvy consumer can tell that they often haven't a clue what they're breeding, and because it's a RSL slapping whatever label on it they feel. And so unless somebody's seriously into branding, one hatchery's Cinnamon Queen is totally unlike another's...which is unfortunate for the consumer who, if used to one particular cross of bird, is sold another bill of goods.

I feel your frustration. And the labeling problem is compounded worse by the fact that some RSLs are bred by some hatcheries (probably most if the truth were known since the line between many hatchery grade RIRs and Production Reds is virtually non-existent) using Production Red roosters, which are themselves hybrids of red gene breeds such as RIRs and HNRs. Cackle Hatchery for example states plainly that their RSLs sold under the "Golden Comet" label are "Production Red X RIW" crosses. Talk about diluted bloodlines. Yet these offspring are still RSLs, and can be sexed by color at hatching. That's why when BYC members ask for identification of their RSLs, I and most of the other regulars who frequent this section don't even try to identify which particular red roo X silver hen crosses they were bred from. We just say they are RSLs.

 

[Peep_Show]

Frustration, yes. It's sad because at some point in time an effort was made to delineate the combinations. However, the hatcheries have rather bastardized that effort with their labeling of sex-links willy-nilly. I am frustrated, but -- hey -- I'm not selling my eggs or birds as such-and-such, so it really doesn't make much of a difference. Just MHO of what should be according to those that tried in the past to make it uniform. (I got my eggs from a guy who was literally incensed when I asked if his Cinnamon Queens had SLW in them. He'd been breeding them that way as his daddy had and they were and always have been CQ's)

I suppose if someone wanted to make a (very expensive) point they could brand the SLW cross and then start litigation against the hatcheries to straighten up their act on what they're selling. It would be a rich man's folly, to be sure. As is, there's a group of us that are trying to keep our birds true to what they were supposed to be and are breeding for a specific lineage vs. the hatcheries who just slap the label on a RSL and send them out to unknowing consumers as Cinnamon Queens.

So, yes, you're right..... A person who has a hatchery god-knows-what-they-really-contain Cinnamon Queen has just as much right to call their bird as such as those of us that are trying to keep the heritage of hybrids identifiable.

 

[Abunari]

I found someone one selling 8 week old cinnamon queens and thought about trying them before I do the black astrolorps I wanted. How are they on long term laying . Will they still lay an egg or two in their yonder years past 3 lol. Just curious.

 

[Peep_Show]

According to the egg calculator (found at chickenwaterer.com) a Star (what we'll call a sex-link or the closest they have to RSL) will lay the following:

Year Eggs
1 275
2 234
3 193
4 165
5 138
6 124
7 96


Of course, actual results may vary. Many first-year producers lay more.

 

[ThePRfan]

Thanks peep show.Right now,my cinnamon girl,is not laying..

 

[ThePRfan]

My RSL cinnamon queen,is red with white.
I have heard of the original stocks and all,but I can't buy from hatcheries only feedsrores.

 

[newwestchick]

My local heritage breed hatchery sells Caramel Queens. They're wellsummer roosters over a light Sussex hen.

Mine are just 4 weeks, they show the black banding around the neck like the light Sussex and a mix of red gold and grey feathers. I'm looking forward to seeing what they look like when they're grown!

Maybe they didn't want to use the Cinnamon Queen name to avoid confusion?

 

[Peep_Show]

Probably more accurately to describe the color. Please post pics as they get older.