Citrone Sebright Genetics Question

[sylviethecochin]

Not quite. The chick should have only one copy of ig, and since it's a completely recessive gene, it would have no effect.

So S/S+ and Ig/ig. You'd get gold leakage, but even if you bred him to a citron female, only half of the offspring would be citron.

EDT: Silver does dilute gold, when there's a copy of each present, (see golden vs gold duckwings) which is why my research turned up that several people believe that citron roosters exist, but citron hens do not. Your roosters might even look like patchy citrons when they've fully feathered. The hard work is going to be getting a citron hen.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Woops! Yes you are right.. he would have one ig. So if I breed him to his sister then:

25% will not receive ig
50% will receive ig
25% will receive ig/ig

I won't be able to distinguish which babies get one ig from those that get no ig.
And I won't be able to tell if any of the silver babies are ig/ig because the ig/ig won't have any effect with silver.

So I'm just going to have to wait on some VERY small odds that I get ig/ig on a hen chick that does not also receive silver from the rooster. Theoretically about 1/8th chance?

This could be a long project..

 

[Cesarloveschickens]

Hi do you have a main thread for your breeding project I can't find it and would love to follow it

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Hi do you have a main thread for your breeding project I can't find it and would love to follow it

Update on my Citrone project..
I've had quite a rocky road with this and I'm not confident that I have the right genes in my current roo but am awaiting the results of this chick season (currently underway) to see what outcomes I get.

Gen1: My original pairing was a Citron sebright hen to a Silver pekin roo. They had three babies, two roosters and one pullet.

Gen2: Since I lost the original Citron hen to illness (I was gutted) I resorted to a pairing of the brother and sister (products of Gen1). That wasn't really a happening thing - I achieved one chick - a rooster. That rooster (currently pictured in my avatar) is silver with gold leakage and at this stage it is questionable as to whether he carries the Ig gene I am testing for.

Note: Up to this point I was relying on the hens to go broody and raise the chicks. Unfortunately this was hampered by several incidents with predators (initially hawks and then weka - grrr). This season I have invested in an incubator, have hawk proofed both chicken runs, and have one chicken run weka proofed.

Gen3: Rusty rooster has been paired with an unrelated silver sebright hen that I have on hand (have been unable to source any good quality golds yet to bring in new blood but am working on that!). We are mid breeding season at the moment and I currently have:

4 x 8 week old babies - three silvers and one gold
3 x 3 week old babies - all silvers
8 x eggs due to hatch in 2 days time (watch this space!)

 

[Chookerynook]

I think this is a good explanation, but feel free to tell me it needs clarification. I'm bad at 'splaining. I'm definitely no "The Moonshiner" (He makes genetics simple.)

Roosters carry two "W" sex chromosomes, which makes them male. "WW"
Hens carry one W and one Z sex chromosome, which makes them female. "WZ."

Silver/gold, barred/nonbarred, and chocolate/nonchocolate genes are all located on the "W" chromosome.

Pullets must inherit the mother's Z chromosome in order to be pullets. Z does not carry gold, barred, or chocolate. Thus, the only copy of those genes that they inherit must be from the father.

Silver and gold are the same gene. Silver is an allele of gold. The father can only pass one W chromosome, which carries either silver or gold, to his offspring. They cannot inherit two alleles of the same gene from a single parent.

A silver rooster carries two copies of silver, one on each W chromosome.
A gold/citron hen only carries one copy of gold, on her single W chromosome.

The cockerels must receive their mother's W chromosome in order to be cockerels, ergo, they must receive Mum's gold. They must also receive Dad's silver, because that's the only gene he can pass.

Silver and gold are co-dominant, rather than completely dominant or completely recessive, so cockerels will be lemon/yellow, not gold or silver.

In short, it's not dirt.

I can't answer your citron question, though. I don't understand why Citron's not simply gold--I assume that silver sebrights carry a gene that gives gold a different sheen--probably a brown modifier of some sort. If so, then half of your cockerels do have a 50/50 of yielding citron pullets with a gold hen. Don't take my word on this. This last bit is a ramble.

@The Moonshiner ?

Hi a question then about Citrone females,
they carry the w with gold from their father so on the “z” allele do they have a copy of silver they would get from their mother? Also,
do they appear/look like the citrone male?

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Hi a question then about Citrone females,
they carry the w with gold from their father so on the “z” allele do they have a copy of silver they would get from their mother? Also,
do they appear/look like the citrone male?

Hi Chookery - This project has evolved another couple of generations!

I can answer your question that Citroen is a Gold bird that also carries a dilution gene. The dilution gene reduces the chocolaty gold to the Citroen gold. Here's a picture of my original Citroen Hen. The females and males look the same - although the same as other varieties, the roosters are more prone to showing colour leakage and errors.



Here is a picture of my most recent round of project babies. They are missing some of the genes required to make a proper full lacing - but they are all Citroen in colour and I'm very much liking they heavy melanisation causing the extra black features.

 

[sylviethecochin]

Hi a question then about Citrone females,
they carry the w with gold from their father so on the “z” allele do they have a copy of silver they would get from their mother? Also,
do they appear/look like the citrone male?

I see that this question was asked three weeks ago, and that it's the only question you've asked, so you're probably not gonna read the answer... but I'mma answer it anyway.

So. The Z chromosome is not an allelle. A chromosome is a whole big collection of genes, wound together.

An allele is a variation of a gene. So gold and silver are two variations of the same gene.

The Z-chromosome is a sex chromosome. It's shorter than the W chromosome, and is missing a lot of genes. These missing genes are what makes the bird female.

One of the missing genes is the gold/silver gene.

Females have a W chromosome, which carries a gold/silver gene, and they also have a Z chromosome, which is shorter than the W chromosome, and does not carry a gold/silver gene. They carry only one gold/silver gene.

Males have two W chromosomes, and thus, two gold/silver genes.

 

[Stu Fanning]

ig's not present in most populations. It's pretty rare, and according to one source (can't find it now...) they bred a few Sebrights back to Citron Hamburgs to get it. Crossover happens (during meiosis I, I believe? It's been a while, I'll have to consult my old textbooks) but as I understand it, it's almost always switching genes, rather than adding them. Bad things often happen when you add genes in diploids, according to my old Developmental Biology professor.

"The Europeans report that Citron/Lemon is a Buff further diluted with the Inhibitor of Gold, the genome is suggested as eb/eb s+/s+ Co/Co Db/Db Pg/Pg Di/Di ig/ig Cb/Cb
ig is rare in Australia but may be in some Tasmanian bred Campines
David"

There's a few other sources, but that one seemed the most reliable. Also, this site is a good color calculator, though the pictures are a bit unreliable.

Just saw your post. Sorry about your hen.

EDT: Gold x Silver doesn't get citron, according to my research. You just get sexlinks, like hatchery production birds.

Again, sorry about your hen. Can you replace her at all? I always thought Sebrights were so pretty...

That is correct, crossing over can mix and match genes inherited from the parent, to pass genes from each grandparent to the offspring. It does not allow duplicate genes on the same loci....that would be in scientific terms BAD.

 

[chickykids]

I am quite confused by this post. I am trying to figure out some genetics on some eggs I hatched that were unexpectedly lemon. It is my understanding the males are ZZ and females are ZW. Is the silver gene on the Z or W chromosome? Thanks!

 

[sylviethecochin]

I am quite confused by this post. I am trying to figure out some genetics on some eggs I hatched that were unexpectedly lemon. It is my understanding the males are ZZ and females are ZW. Is the silver gene on the Z or W chromosome? Thanks!

Males are ZZ and females are ZW, that is correct. The W chromosome is shorter and does not carry the silver gene.