City Issued a Citation and claims we aren’t allowed to have chickens due to neighbor’s complaint. What are my options?

[All4Eggz]

Just got through the thread, glad to see a happy ending. I was originally going to suggest just breeding and releasing rats to mess with the karens you're surrounded by

Not a happy ending yet but we’re getting there!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Today was the hearing with the planning board.

It seemed like everyone from the board was in favor. That was reflected in the *unanimous* “yes” vote to bring it back to the city council. So big, big success.
I had another 15 or so people come today. The board was impressed.

The only pushback today was from one resident who spoke out. Her argument was not strong. Thankfully.

Myself along with two others went up to speak in favor and received a good response from the board.


They all voted for it to go back to the council “positively”, I don’t fully understand the wording they used in the process of voting but I believe what it means is that they uphold what the city council put in as a petition, and support another hearing to get input and then eventually get it voted on.

So the next hearing is in a few days or maybe a couple weeks, I didn’t hear about a date yet. Since they left public input open, the public can still take part in the next hearing. That one won’t be official voting as far as I’m aware. Once they close public input they have to schedule two more hearings in which they will vote in real-time if they will put the ordinance into law.
It’s a big process but if I learned anything from this - it’s “don’t give up”. If this is a situation you’re in- do everything you can. If there is no option left- find one. Just so happens that I had to go to the lengths of trying to change the law. For most I hope and pray it’s much easier, if they are ever in a situation similar to me.

But just know, it’s possible.

Thank you all for your kind words and support! Making a city-wide difference one step at a time! I’ll do whatever it takes!

Wow! This has been a long time coming, but your persistence and tenacity seem to be paying off! Good for you! Be of good courage and keep on keeping on!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Just got through the thread, glad to see a happy ending. I was originally going to suggest just breeding and releasing rats to mess with the karens you're surrounded by

You're kidding, right?

 

[All4Eggz]

The next city council hearing is on the 15th of May, that’s the last one that they will take public input. After that, the city council will vote and we actually need a 2/3rds majority.

So I learned a little bit about the process. We have 13 city council members, so we need 9 of them to vote to put it through. the reason the planning board is involved, is they had an opportunity to make adjustments to the proposed ordinance as necessary, or they can accept it as it is and make a “positive recommendation” to the city council. Technically if they gave a negative recommendation, or they were split on the positive recommendation, the city council could still pass the ordinance but it would possibly require a super majority or something similar instead of 2/3. Basically the planning board is involved with zoning so they just want to make sure it is reasonable and they kind of give the “ok” to the city council. If a majority vote yes for the positive recommendation, it’s put in as a positive recommendation for the city council, which makes it more likely for the council to vote to put it through.

 

[All4Eggz]

The next city council hearing is on the 15th of May, that’s the last one that they will take public input. After that, the city council will vote and we actually need a 2/3rds majority.

So I learned a little bit about the process. We have 13 city council members, so we need 9 of them to vote to put it through. the reason the planning board is involved, is they had an opportunity to make adjustments to the proposed ordinance as necessary, or they can accept it as it is and make a “positive recommendation” to the city council. Technically if they gave a negative recommendation, or they were split on the positive recommendation, the city council could still pass the ordinance but it would possibly require a super majority or something similar instead of 2/3. Basically the planning board is involved with zoning so they just want to make sure it is reasonable and they kind of give the “ok” to the city council. If a majority vote yes for the positive recommendation, it’s put in as a positive recommendation for the city council, which makes it more likely for the council to vote to put it through.

Forgot to update! The city council hearing didn’t go as well as we had hoped. We received a lot more pushback from the council and again, one person from the public spoke against while there was still a handful of people from the public that spoke up in favor.
The city council was mostly worried about lot size requirements, permit requirements ( the original makers of the petition are trying to make this by-right ), and number of hens.

So the two city council members that originally created the petitioned proposed ordinance kept mentioning that they are open to making changes if it is more likely to pass.

So after a few of us were a little torn after that hearing, we went right back to research, and seeing what we can do.

We need a 2/3 majority to pass it.

13 city council members, so we need 9.

The council voted to refer it to the Zoning Planning and Development committee which would be involved with making any necessary changes and they would provide valuable input that would help the city council make their decision.

So we made a list of every city council member and where they stand on the issue (judging by their past opinions on the issue, how they’ve spoken out at the hearings, their objections, reactions etc.)
We have 6 definite Yes’s. 3 No’s. The rest are flip flops, could go either way. So using this info we decided to focus on the ones that are on the fence about it.

We encouraged one of the authors of the proposal (one of the council members) to meet with the animal control officer (the one who would be enforcing the ordinance) and some members of the ZPD board, to try to get to a middle ground in order to flip flop those who wanted a minor change or who were just iffy about it. They ended up talking about some changes- unofficial but it did get I think one or two of the on-the-fence councilors on board.
After that it was officially referred to the ZPD, and in that meeting the city council, animal control officer, and a regular police officer were present. The animal control officer offered some changes before she said she would be completely comfortable enforcing it (if the changes were made).
The police officer agreed and some of the councilors agreed with the changes.

I only heard from one councilor but I’m pretty sure some of the changes include:
- 3 hens for 5000 sq ft instead of 6
-I heard something along the lines of :15,000+ by-right and anything less than that would req. a special permit (I’m not sure if this was part of the official changes)
- and I believe they also said something about increasing the limit of hens for every X square feet of land.
- Having people sign a paper that requires them to be responsible chicken owners

^ I’m not sure if any of that was an actual change to the proposed ordinance but that’s just what I heard was discussed.

So… long story short

none of that would really effect me because of the amount of land I have, so I think it’s okay that they came up with this as long as it gets passed. I think some people changed their minds at least so I HOPE we are at our minimum of 9 yes’s.
The vote is not scheduled but it will be public. It will probably be in early June.


I told myself if they vote no what am I going to do? So I got quail literally today. I told myself that even if they say no I’ll have something but it will probably be a yes and I’ll have both quail and chickens.


I set my incubator today with two dozen quail eggs (coturnix, celadon) and I also have 8 button quail. A lady couldn’t keep them anymore so I figured I could help out. I used to have quail but now I’m waiting to get an enclosure, I will probably have it within a couple days. For the time being they are in a temporary cage. They have some cool coloring and they are way smaller and way more flighty than I thought (I’ve only had jumbo coturnix and regular coturnix). I thought this might keep me busy while I’m waiting for the chicken laws to change!!
Quail are quiet so neighbor shouldn’t complain. If she does they’ll have to go through the months long process to make me get rid of my quail

I will keep you all updated!!!! Looking forward to the vote very soon and after almost losing hope after the last public hearing, we regained it after necessary changes were made which flipped some of the council members that were on the fence! That’s all just speculative though— what we are hoping for but it’s not set in stone yet.


Some of my buttons!!

 

[All4Eggz]

Forgot to update! The city council hearing didn’t go as well as we had hoped. We received a lot more pushback from the council and again, one person from the public spoke against while there was still a handful of people from the public that spoke up in favor.
The city council was mostly worried about lot size requirements, permit requirements ( the original makers of the petition are trying to make this by-right ), and number of hens.

So the two city council members that originally created the petitioned proposed ordinance kept mentioning that they are open to making changes if it is more likely to pass.

So after a few of us were a little torn after that hearing, we went right back to research, and seeing what we can do.

We need a 2/3 majority to pass it.

13 city council members, so we need 9.

The council voted to refer it to the Zoning Planning and Development committee which would be involved with making any necessary changes and they would provide valuable input that would help the city council make their decision.

So we made a list of every city council member and where they stand on the issue (judging by their past opinions on the issue, how they’ve spoken out at the hearings, their objections, reactions etc.)
We have 6 definite Yes’s. 3 No’s. The rest are flip flops, could go either way. So using this info we decided to focus on the ones that are on the fence about it.

We encouraged one of the authors of the proposal (one of the council members) to meet with the animal control officer (the one who would be enforcing the ordinance) and some members of the ZPD board, to try to get to a middle ground in order to flip flop those who wanted a minor change or who were just iffy about it. They ended up talking about some changes- unofficial but it did get I think one or two of the on-the-fence councilors on board.
After that it was officially referred to the ZPD, and in that meeting the city council, animal control officer, and a regular police officer were present. The animal control officer offered some changes before she said she would be completely comfortable enforcing it (if the changes were made).
The police officer agreed and some of the councilors agreed with the changes.

I only heard from one councilor but I’m pretty sure some of the changes include:
- 3 hens for 5000 sq ft instead of 6
-I heard something along the lines of :15,000+ by-right and anything less than that would req. a special permit (I’m not sure if this was part of the official changes)
- and I believe they also said something about increasing the limit of hens for every X square feet of land.
- Having people sign a paper that requires them to be responsible chicken owners

^ I’m not sure if any of that was an actual change to the proposed ordinance but that’s just what I heard was discussed.

So… long story short

none of that would really effect me because of the amount of land I have, so I think it’s okay that they came up with this as long as it gets passed. I think some people changed their minds at least so I HOPE we are at our minimum of 9 yes’s.
The vote is not scheduled but it will be public. It will probably be in early June.


I told myself if they vote no what am I going to do? So I got quail literally today. I told myself that even if they say no I’ll have something but it will probably be a yes and I’ll have both quail and chickens.


I set my incubator today with two dozen quail eggs (coturnix, celadon) and I also have 8 button quail. A lady couldn’t keep them anymore so I figured I could help out. I used to have quail but now I’m waiting to get an enclosure, I will probably have it within a couple days. For the time being they are in a temporary cage. They have some cool coloring and they are way smaller and way more flighty than I thought (I’ve only had jumbo coturnix and regular coturnix). I thought this might keep me busy while I’m waiting for the chicken laws to change!!
Quail are quiet so neighbor shouldn’t complain. If she does they’ll have to go through the months long process to make me get rid of my quail

I will keep you all updated!!!! Looking forward to the vote very soon and after almost losing hope after the last public hearing, we regained it after necessary changes were made which flipped some of the council members that were on the fence! That’s all just speculative though— what we are hoping for but it’s not set in stone yet.


Some of my buttons!!
View attachment 4137398

I never knew button quail eggs are so small!!!

Large chicken egg — button quail egg

also, I just got an update today- June 23 is first vote, whatever that means. Implication is that there will be a second vote.

 

[MapleLaurelFarms]

I never knew button quail eggs are so small!!!

Oh that is sooo cute!

also, I just got an update today- June 23 is first vote, whatever that means. Implication is that there will be a second vote.

Good grief, can they drag this out any longer? I would think that a vote would be a vote - the end.

Sorry you're dealing with this, but I'm so proud of you for sticking to your guns, so to speak. All the chicken owners in your town and area should personally thank you AND speak up for you during this. I don't live there, but as one rightful chicken owner to another, I certainly thank you!

 

[All4Eggz]

Oh that is sooo cute!

Good grief, can they drag this out any longer? I would think that a vote would be a vote - the end.

Literally what I was thinking. It already took long enough to get it into the committee and have all the required hearings. Now we just have to wait but I am hopeful and not very worried.

Sorry you're dealing with this, but I'm so proud of you for sticking to your guns, so to speak. All the chicken owners in your town and area should personally thank you AND speak up for you during this. I don't live there, but as one rightful chicken owner to another, I certainly thank you!

I really appreciate that! I was honestly shocked that more people didn’t show up to the hearings, but I guess it makes sense because most people that wanted chickens, have them.. illegally but their neighbors must be more reasonable than mine.

 

[MapleLaurelFarms]

We had a very unreasonable neighbor once who got very ticked at us because "our" leaves fell into her yard and pool. We learned fairly quickly that we just needed to keep our distance and run whenever we saw her coming. We later found out that she actually had a bad reputation with about everyone in the neighborhood. Even though that knowledge didn't change anything, it made us feel not so alone.

I sincerely hope that you come out on top of this, and she keeps her distance from here on out!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Way to go, Ben! I admire your persistence for hanging in there on this. And thanks for the update. Wow, that egg is TIIIINYYY! Amazing that any living thing can fight its way out of that. There's a lesson in there somewhere, yes? Remind us before the vote comes up so we can stand with you in solidarity, ok? Keep on keeping on!