Clan Mating Questions—Off-topic Lapse Into Breeding Methods

[BantyChooks]

Hi,
I hope this is the right place to post this. I am hoping to begin breeding Partridge Chanteclers and have been doing some research into different breeding systems. I think clan mating sounds like the best fit, but I am not sure on one point:
So the first year you breed red cockbirds to red hens, and so on with green and blue. Then the next year you move the red cockbird to cover the green hens, green cockbirds to blue hens, etc. But the third year onward is where the info gets fuzzy---do you move the cockbirds again, landing the red cockbird in the blue pen? Or do they stay in the pen over from where they originated until you are no longer using them?

Thank you.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Holy moly...took me a bit to find it again. Whew!

I found these:
http://www.jeffersonsdaughters.com/2017/04/23/clan-mating/
http://www.jeffersonsdaughters.com/2017/05/01/clan-mating-year-year/

So the idea is to keep it to 3 pens? Am I correct on that? I tried reading it last night when I got back in...but it just bounced off my brain...lol.

 

[BantyChooks]

Holy moly...took me a bit to find it again. Whew!

I found these:
http://www.jeffersonsdaughters.com/2017/04/23/clan-mating/
http://www.jeffersonsdaughters.com/2017/05/01/clan-mating-year-year/

So the idea is to keep it to 3 pens? Am I correct on that? I tried reading it last night when I got back in...but it just bounced off my brain...lol.

Thank you!

No, you can do as many pens as you want... 3 is just the easiest.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

The way I read it, 3 is the minimum for it to make any sense (but for back yards, it's reasonable). My (possibly imperfect) understanding is that it is just a ways to organize matings so as to increase genetic diversity (and options for picking birds with aspects you want to keep) when you start with limited stock and are not bringing any more in. If you didn't do this, you could find yourself with a whole lot of full siblings you wouldn't want to breed with each other, or with limited options with line breeding (e.g., what if what you want to select for isn't going to be helped by breeding back to parent). With this, in not very long, your next generations become less and less related to each other, and you also get to "try" a lot more combinations of matings to attempt to get positive features. And with keeping all the records, when you have a really great bird (or, alternatively, one with a serious fault), you know exactly who the parents are (provided you can identify mom - but if not, at least you know what clan she's in to narrow it down).

I could be wrong, that's how I understand it. I have three GNH cockerels and three GNH pullets. They are all siblings. If I have any hope of breeding them (even just for myself), I have to be very careful to increase the diversity. So I'm doing clan method for full GNHs.

- Ant Farm

 

[BantyChooks]

Also looks like they're saying to keep rotating until 3 years have gone by, then cull the roosters... Interesting. That clears up a lot of questions. Thanks for the link, Wicked.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Also looks like they're saying to keep rotating until 3 years have gone by, then cull the roos... Interesting. That clears up a lot of questions. Thanks for the link, Wicked.

You're welcome.

I was figuring on doing mine like how I bred the sheep. Being purebred they had to be 4 generations off. I started with a base flock from 4 farms consisting of several different bloodlines. I only ever brought in rams. I kept replacement/additional females. I also kept male offspring that made the cut.

So I breed original flock to ram A.
I kept the selected offspring and shipped the culls.
I breed those Ram A females get bred to Ram B, a complete outcross.
Rinse and repeat. Those females get bred to Ram C.

I never culled stock UNLESS I had problems. Eventually you get back to the beginning and you can breed the offspring back to Ram A again. When I found good rams I kept the darn things. Too hard to find good rams. Eventually I could also use my own rams.

If it the issue was serious enough then the entire line was culled. And I've done that a couple of times; once because of a ram, once an entire line I purchased both males and females and sometimes the odd ewe line had issues.

Now to chickens. I only bring in eggs. So I'm always going to have cockerels I see now. But my plan is somewhat the same. I also have the fun of being able to crossbreed so that is another dimension I didn't have with my sheep. Fun stuff with the chickens is that I can have more than one related line going. And the magic with chickens is that they stay bred for 2+ weeks. I'm still working things out. But that's why I have 40+ roosters so far to keep.

I can always get rid of them...but I can never get them back...that's my motto...lol.

Oh yes I forgot to add...when I have good roosters...I don't want to get rid of them like the clan breeding idea. I'm hoarding those especially.

 

[BantyChooks]

That's a fantastic idea.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Well you know...my logic IS undeniable.



Seriously though, I hate to give up my best stock.
#1. If there are any problems down the line...you can catch it and rectify it.
You won't know if they're sold.
#2. I'm always breeding for longevity. Hard to know what one's dealing with if, again, they are sold.
#3. If you experience predation...you may need those genetics again.
#4. If I keep them 'cause they're the bomb...I don't want to part with them.
#5. Refer to reason #4
#6. You can see first hand the changes you've made down the line...and can compare whether you're making the correct decisions for what you're breeding for.

 

[BantyChooks]

Well you know...my logic IS undeniable.

View attachment 1034719

Seriously though, I hate to give up my best stock.
#1. If there are any problems down the line...you can catch it and rectify it.
You won't know if they're sold.
#2. I'm always breeding for longevity. Hard to know what one's dealing with if, again, they are sold.
#3. If you experience predation...you may need those genetics again.
#4. If I keep them 'cause they're the bomb...I don't want to part with them.
#5. Refer to reason #4
#6. You can see first hand the changes you've made down the line...and can compare whether you're making the correct decisions for what you're breeding for.

I think you may have just made your very first logical post.