Closing the loop with BSFL

[velacreations]

Now, before you get upset, just hear me out...

I was reading about different insect integrations with waste streams and came across this one:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/tmi.12228/pdf

Quote:
So, feeding Black Soldier Fly Larvae fresh human faeces resulted in FCR of 2.0–3.3, which is better than a lot of insects, and better than BSFL on a lot of manures.

Now, they could be sterilized (chemically, like fermentation, or with heat) and fed to animals. Chickens, in particular, would be a good one for this, maybe dogs, too. I don't know if I would risk it with fish, but maybe.

An average human excretes 1.1 kg of faeces per day, which could make 330-500 grams of BSF daily! That's enough for several chickens!

So, how could this be done?

 

[TalkALittle]

Ok, since we already talked about feces, I figure I can talk about urine, too.

Velacreations, I just wanted to let you know that I'm very intrigued by your ideas. Figuring out a way of eliminating what would otherwise be a waste product while at the same time creating a livestock feed source is the kind of thinking that is necessary if ever we want to move to a more sustainable way of existence.

A viable alternative to conventional human fecal waste processing such as this would not only be a way to deal with sanitation issues, but could impact hunger and poverty issues as well. I've often felt we could feed the world's hungry if we all just ate bugs anyway. Feeding bugs raised on poop to chickens is not something that would gross me out in the least. Heck, I'm actually wondering if it would be more efficient to cut the chicken out of the picture entirely and just eat the processed larva ourselves.

 

[velacreations]

As a citizen of the US I found that offensive on different levels. If you travel the world you will find people who have English as a third or fourth language that speak and write better English than many English speaking natives. You will also find English speaking natives living all over the world, not just in English speaking countries. And the thought that you cannot get a good education anywhere but here is not in touch with reality.

I don't think he was trying to be offensive, he was just making a joke, but I could see right away that it could be offensive to lots of people.

Quote:
Well, by natural, I meant their natural/wild foods. Grains are human creations, and wild chickens wouldn't have come across them much. Maggots, however, would have been a natural food source. Yes, they need a balanced diet, and any insects should be a part of a balanced diet.

Quote: Well, a few things on the point about sanitation. First, the chickens wouldn't come in contact with the feces in any way. Secondly, BSFL self harvest when they are ready to pupate, and when they do this, they vomit their stomachs out and shed their skin, so when they leave the feeding area, they do not carry any of the feces with them. Third, just for good measure, boiling or fermenting them would be a good thing to do.

BSFL actually repel other flies in a proper system. They excrete hormones to prevent other flies taking over their food source.

Quote: This is certainly the case. But, the challenges may not be as large as first assumed. It's similar to a composting toilet, and BSF bins for non-human excrement are common. Here's one we use for manures and slaughter waste:
http://velacreations.com/food/animals/bsf/107.html

 

[TalkALittle]

OK, I draw the line at eating the larva myself. I am sure I could collect the poop and feed it to the larva, then feed the larva to the chickens, WAY before I could eat the larva myself. My stomach thinks digesting larva is just wrong on so many levels. *****running to find a chair to hide under*****

I completely understand that the majority of people would balk at the idea of eating bugs, especially those fed poop. But I'm not talking about frying up a plate of the crawly critters and eating it for lunch. It'd be near to impossible to get people to sign on to that idea. I'm envisioning the worms being dried and processed into a powder that would then become an additive to "regular" foods in much the same manner that things like whey or soy protein powder is. I'm willing to bet that a strawberry protein shake made with larva protein vs. one made with soy protein would probably still taste like strawberries--even if the larva were raised on poop.

 

[lazy gardener]

Interesting food for thought! I'll have to work on digesting these concepts! I got overly excited when I read about BSFL, then had my hopes dashed when I learned that it was not possible to keep a viable colony this far north. There are some interesting options out there for alternates to the typical leach field/septic tank in the country, and sewage treatment plants in the urban areas. IMO, we are a spendthrift society, which includes the way we process our wastes. I would like to see some studies done using the BSF to process human waste. Some of the important things to test for: Are there any pathogens in the larvae that crawl off? What is left in the bin after, say a 2 week withdrawal period? Pathogens, heavy metals, medication residue?

We get grossed out by some farming practices in less developed countries... use of human feces on garden crops, use of chicken manure in fish farming. Even in this country, folks get grossed out by the idea of eating an egg that came from a chicken butt (while it's ok to eat an egg from a styrofoam carton from the grocery store. Gross: Killing and processing your own meat, while it's ok to eat factory farmed meat in cello packs, including chicken which has been floating in a vat which includes feces left over from mechanical evisceration. Gross: eating lettuce from a home garden because a bug might have chewed or walked on it, while it's ok to eat vegetables with pesticide residue from the grocery store.

The bottom line is that we have pre-conceived notions of what is and is not an acceptable practice. Our water hogging sewage treatment plants just might have a run for their money from BSF farming! I'd love to see some studies on the practical application of this idea. It's along the same lines as what Vermont Compost Co. is doing with chickens and compost: Put chickens with a waste product and you end up with a win/win situation for all concerned.

 

[TalkALittle]

I wonder how much of the commercially raised meat eats poop already? It's common in the poultry and pig industry to feed manures to animals.

Most people don't realize that they may be eating beef that was fed chicken poop. Wouldn't they rather eat chickens that were fed larva that were fed people poop, than eat beef that was fed chicken poop? The former is one step further from poop than the latter.

 

[velacreations]

First, I think you are lying that you are from Chihuahua , Your English is too good and you are educated.

I am not lying, that's where I live. I know you didn't mean it to be offensive, but some people would see it as that.


Quote: Well, maggots are a natural food for chickens, far more natural than grains. It's hard to meet the protein requirements of laying hens with just veggies and grains.

Too much fish can cause smell issues, but BSFL shed their skin and vomit out their entire stomach before leaving the bin. So, they do not have any smell or resemblance to what they ate. Many of us use BSFL as feed for chickens, mostly grown on food scraps, but this is taking it to the next level.

Closing the loop of energy is important, because otherwise, your waste becomes a pollutant. Septic systems are the leading cause of groundwater pollution in the US. Turning that pollutant into a resource is a good way to increase the sustainability of your operation.

I have yet to try this, but to me, a lb of free chicken food every day is worth considering. My chickens have access to compost and manure piles, and they eat their share of both. There is no off flavor or smell to the eggs, they are all very healthy and produce through the winter without issue.

 

[Ridgerunner]

As a citizen of the US I found that offensive on different levels. If you travel the world you will find people who have English as a third or fourth language that speak and write better English than many English speaking natives. You will also find English speaking natives living all over the world, not just in English speaking countries. And the thought that you cannot get a good education anywhere but here is not in touch with reality.

Maggots are no more natural than grains. Chickens need a balanced diet. You get a balanced diet by eating different things. I do believe they do better if animal proteins are included in their diet, but they cannot live exclusively on animal products and do better than if they live on an all vegetarian diet, which I also consider unnatural.

The issue I’d have with that is sanitation. Not because of what the chickens eat but what they may get on their feet or feathers, which can be passed onto the eggs or meat if you are not careful how you process them. The other thing to consider is that you are going to be attracting flies, which will walk in that to lay eggs then walk on other surfaces.

It’s something that may sound good in theory but actually putting it into practice may present challenges.

 

[velacreations]

But, I do agree, the thought of handling human excreetment to supply a source of food for my chickens just plain goes against my thinking.

Yeah, I know it is a touchy subject, but you need to consider that they are eating the bugs, not the excrement. It's similar to them catching a grub or a dung beetle while free ranging. The difference is that you can control the sanitation and optimize conditions to get a lot of chicken feed out of the excrement.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Grains are grass seeds. Many have been modified by selective breeding to make them easier to grow and harvest. Different grains have different nutritional values but they are essentially grass seeds. Different wild grass seeds have different nutritional values. If you want to consider anything domesticated as unnatural, fine. You certainly can do that. But I see no real difference in the nutritional value of a domesticated grass seed versus a wild grass seed, as long as you consider it for its individual nutritional value and mix it into their balanced diet appropriately.

If you can get past the YUK! factor of handling human excrement, good for you. I can’t. But I use chicken feet in my broth and handle the YUK! factor by scalding and peeling them. Many people can’t handle that.