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Cobb 500 meat bird
- Thread starter Faraz1
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I've raised cobb 500 CX before. I got mine from Jenx Hatchery and they were good, solid and healthy birds.
At the time, I wanted large birds that I could harvest over time starting at 8 weeks and finishing butchering at 12 to 13 weeks. My approach was to give them unlimited feed for the first 2 weeks and then begin reducing it, so by 4 weeks they were getting fed just twice a day -- morning and late afternoon. I would fill their feeders with fermented, wet feed, and give them 20 to 30 minutes so that all birds had eaten their fills and staggered away. I had the amounts dialed in, so that at the end of the eating session there was very little left in the trays.
In between, they had access to a large yard with some natural plants and grasses. I also would toss sprouted grains and old produce around. Some were more ambitious than others, but for the most part they did learn to forage.
Other then a couple of odd losses -- one due to impacted crop, a hawk attack -- I never lost a bird after they were 5 days old. No broken legs or heart attacks. I didn't keep any after 13 weeks, but I suspect I may have been able to keep a hen alive until egg laying age if I tried.
You will have to keep any CX hens you hold over away from the rest of the flock, so you can keep their diet restricted. I also would limit your rooster's access, until you know they are laying eggs and then keep the breedings at the minimum necessary to get fertile eggs, as they will be quite heavy and the weight of a rooster might be hard on them.
I have read of at least a couple of people on this forum who managed to keep CX hens. Their offspring will not breed true, and will not rival the original CX size. But, they will be, on average, much larger than normal birds.
It is much easier to hold over slow broiler hens for breeding. They are naturally more long lived, even if not quite so large and fast growing. I have held over red rangers and slow white broilers for breeding. My current rooster is half slow broiler, half naked neck. I've been pretty satisfied with the growth, body shape and size of his offspring. True, they are a far cry from CX or even pure slow broilers, but I can still get a well proportioned, meaty bird in 14 weeks. My plan this year is to breed my rooster with some red ranger hens I have held over and see what I get.
At the time, I wanted large birds that I could harvest over time starting at 8 weeks and finishing butchering at 12 to 13 weeks. My approach was to give them unlimited feed for the first 2 weeks and then begin reducing it, so by 4 weeks they were getting fed just twice a day -- morning and late afternoon. I would fill their feeders with fermented, wet feed, and give them 20 to 30 minutes so that all birds had eaten their fills and staggered away. I had the amounts dialed in, so that at the end of the eating session there was very little left in the trays.
In between, they had access to a large yard with some natural plants and grasses. I also would toss sprouted grains and old produce around. Some were more ambitious than others, but for the most part they did learn to forage.
Other then a couple of odd losses -- one due to impacted crop, a hawk attack -- I never lost a bird after they were 5 days old. No broken legs or heart attacks. I didn't keep any after 13 weeks, but I suspect I may have been able to keep a hen alive until egg laying age if I tried.
You will have to keep any CX hens you hold over away from the rest of the flock, so you can keep their diet restricted. I also would limit your rooster's access, until you know they are laying eggs and then keep the breedings at the minimum necessary to get fertile eggs, as they will be quite heavy and the weight of a rooster might be hard on them.
I have read of at least a couple of people on this forum who managed to keep CX hens. Their offspring will not breed true, and will not rival the original CX size. But, they will be, on average, much larger than normal birds.
It is much easier to hold over slow broiler hens for breeding. They are naturally more long lived, even if not quite so large and fast growing. I have held over red rangers and slow white broilers for breeding. My current rooster is half slow broiler, half naked neck. I've been pretty satisfied with the growth, body shape and size of his offspring. True, they are a far cry from CX or even pure slow broilers, but I can still get a well proportioned, meaty bird in 14 weeks. My plan this year is to breed my rooster with some red ranger hens I have held over and see what I get.
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Also, from what I've read on here, the CX laying hens only live 1-1.5 years tops, even if they've been feed restricted. They're just not long lived.
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Yes i saw an old thread on "toad raising" which i need to go through in detail. It is quite lengthy and the poster doesnt seem to be active anymore. Do you have any other resources to share ?
Yes, that is what the hatcheries do.
I've read that they actually use a 4-way cross.
They keep 4 distinct parent types, each of which breed true. They cross two to get the females, and the other two to get the males, that will produce the actual Cornish Cross we see.
The breeding stock have many of the same issues as the Cornish Cross, and have to be raised on limited feed, but the companies have it worked out pretty thoroughly about how to do that at a large scale.
Here is a .pdf from the Cobb-Vantress company on managing the breeder stock. I haven't read the whole thing, but I've looked through the table of contents and skim-read some other parts. You might be able to pick out some details that would help with your project.
https://www.cobb-vantress.com/asset.../ca1b2a76ed/Cobb-Breeder-Management-Guide.pdf
Here are a couple of threads that are also a bit rambling. In the first one, a poster called Molpet discusses holding over a CX hen for breeding:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/heritage-meat-birds.1363241
In this thread, a lot of us share our experiences in trying to raise and breed various types of meat birds. I recall there being various discussions about holding over CX and other types of broiler hens for breeding.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...modern-broilers-heritage-and-hybrids.1295366/
Trying to self breed meat birds, starting with some type of hybrid broiler has been something many here have done, tried, or are still trying to do. It's a lot a trial and error and unpredictability.
Great thread, fantastic comments! I have been growing out cobb 500 for about 7 years in an urban homestead environment. They have been the primary source of meat for my family of 4. I’ve grown out about 300+ so far. You can not beat the production of CX and you can’t beat the liveliness of the cobb 500 strain. In many ways, if done rite, this bird is a thoroughbred, a spectacular (as someone said). “supersonic” bird.
Trying to grow them out to breed seems pretty futile. You’d be better off adjusting the cross upstream before the CX. Zillions of people have tried what you are doing, it’s a neat experiment, and I wish you luck, and every time I read about these adventures I learn something new but always come away with an even deeper respect for what this cross achieves. I can make a strong argument that your better off learning to work with its ways rather than trying to change its ways.
2.5 lbs of grain to a pound of meat with dressed weight of 3-5 lbs at 6-7 weeks and dressed weight of upwards of 9 lbs at 9 weeks is bonkers amazing. It’s the big agro industrial farms where the real nightmares happen. The small backyard grower has the opportunity to fine tune their practices and create a humane environment. From an environmental impact perspective, they provide the lowest carbon footprint of any meat producer, better than rabbits and of course way better than beef (which is more like 18 lbs of grain for a lb of meat).
I have no issue with folks who are curious, trying to tweak the genes, but it’s very unlikely to pan out. There are already slower growing meat birds for this purpose. The minute you breed a cross, just like with plants, you end up getting a smattering of its predecessors in rather prescribed proportions, than can all bee worked out in a punit square, what geneticists use to illustrate how a cross works. You will not get a pure and sustainable stock. Each time you breed the proportions of birds that represent the predecessors will be different, and depending on which ones you breed in the next generation, you’ll get entirely different genes. It’s a pretty handy phenomenon if you want to charge money for chicks that prevent people from replicating the breed itself. I’d say it’s part of some diabolical plan for world dominance but the fact is, nothing beats this cross, hands down, so I gladly pay for a breeder to supply me with the outcome of all their work.
IMHO your time would be better spent either trying out the many other dual purpose birds or slow growing meat birds or, mastering the care regimen that leads to the CX remaining happy and healthy and award winning productive. Restricting food is torture for them, an absolutely miserable state. They have 10 times the metabolism of virtually every other chicken strain. They live fast and die young, waking up with an aching pit of hunger in their belly and able to process food about as fast as they can get it in their mouths. The marvel of this, when combined with good practices is truly something to behold. To top it off they actually have an incredibly sweet demeanor if you get to know them.
The key is applying principles of humane husbandry. Avoiding heat lamps, the light keeps them up and eating to the point where their muscles outgrow their joints. In warm months they need no heat at all (60f+ at night). The rest of the time they need a radiant heat source at the most, then wheened off completely as soon as old enough to generate the required heat. the lack of light at night makes them sleep and eliminates the need to remove the food, they self regulate and grow stronger bones with less leg problems just by eliminating the light… their bones keep up with the pace of muscle growth, at least more so. Moving water further from food and raising both to encourage them to stand as much as possible is very helpful. At week 5-7 they will begin sitting due to their weight, this is normal. They have lived a full life by the time they are 6-8 weeks old and from there, they decline and typically succumb to heart issues. (I can’t help hearing the jingle of jimmy buffets “living and dying in 3/4 time”, except these birds express their entire genetic capacity in 1/10th the time)
A deep litter is key to moisture control, a high protein diet means wet poop, with lots of amonia if let sit. Deep litter leads to a dryer bed, eliminating foot sores, and allowing them to have a decently clean, white coat. They will remain energetic and frolic up to about 5 weeks.
The food is very, very important. I just tried a new ration and it failed miserably. I reached back to my supplier and they explained some of the science behind this thoroughbred’s nutritional needs and it’s not just protein content. They have a specific amino acid profile they need to maintain for their heart to be able to keep up with their mind boggling growth.
Anyways, good luck, have fun, be humane and keep us updated on what you learn.
Trying to grow them out to breed seems pretty futile. You’d be better off adjusting the cross upstream before the CX. Zillions of people have tried what you are doing, it’s a neat experiment, and I wish you luck, and every time I read about these adventures I learn something new but always come away with an even deeper respect for what this cross achieves. I can make a strong argument that your better off learning to work with its ways rather than trying to change its ways.
2.5 lbs of grain to a pound of meat with dressed weight of 3-5 lbs at 6-7 weeks and dressed weight of upwards of 9 lbs at 9 weeks is bonkers amazing. It’s the big agro industrial farms where the real nightmares happen. The small backyard grower has the opportunity to fine tune their practices and create a humane environment. From an environmental impact perspective, they provide the lowest carbon footprint of any meat producer, better than rabbits and of course way better than beef (which is more like 18 lbs of grain for a lb of meat).
I have no issue with folks who are curious, trying to tweak the genes, but it’s very unlikely to pan out. There are already slower growing meat birds for this purpose. The minute you breed a cross, just like with plants, you end up getting a smattering of its predecessors in rather prescribed proportions, than can all bee worked out in a punit square, what geneticists use to illustrate how a cross works. You will not get a pure and sustainable stock. Each time you breed the proportions of birds that represent the predecessors will be different, and depending on which ones you breed in the next generation, you’ll get entirely different genes. It’s a pretty handy phenomenon if you want to charge money for chicks that prevent people from replicating the breed itself. I’d say it’s part of some diabolical plan for world dominance but the fact is, nothing beats this cross, hands down, so I gladly pay for a breeder to supply me with the outcome of all their work.
IMHO your time would be better spent either trying out the many other dual purpose birds or slow growing meat birds or, mastering the care regimen that leads to the CX remaining happy and healthy and award winning productive. Restricting food is torture for them, an absolutely miserable state. They have 10 times the metabolism of virtually every other chicken strain. They live fast and die young, waking up with an aching pit of hunger in their belly and able to process food about as fast as they can get it in their mouths. The marvel of this, when combined with good practices is truly something to behold. To top it off they actually have an incredibly sweet demeanor if you get to know them.
The key is applying principles of humane husbandry. Avoiding heat lamps, the light keeps them up and eating to the point where their muscles outgrow their joints. In warm months they need no heat at all (60f+ at night). The rest of the time they need a radiant heat source at the most, then wheened off completely as soon as old enough to generate the required heat. the lack of light at night makes them sleep and eliminates the need to remove the food, they self regulate and grow stronger bones with less leg problems just by eliminating the light… their bones keep up with the pace of muscle growth, at least more so. Moving water further from food and raising both to encourage them to stand as much as possible is very helpful. At week 5-7 they will begin sitting due to their weight, this is normal. They have lived a full life by the time they are 6-8 weeks old and from there, they decline and typically succumb to heart issues. (I can’t help hearing the jingle of jimmy buffets “living and dying in 3/4 time”, except these birds express their entire genetic capacity in 1/10th the time)
A deep litter is key to moisture control, a high protein diet means wet poop, with lots of amonia if let sit. Deep litter leads to a dryer bed, eliminating foot sores, and allowing them to have a decently clean, white coat. They will remain energetic and frolic up to about 5 weeks.
The food is very, very important. I just tried a new ration and it failed miserably. I reached back to my supplier and they explained some of the science behind this thoroughbred’s nutritional needs and it’s not just protein content. They have a specific amino acid profile they need to maintain for their heart to be able to keep up with their mind boggling growth.
Anyways, good luck, have fun, be humane and keep us updated on what you learn.
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I used a Cx hen in my culling project. Its offspring were some of the first birds I culled, and it took another generation or two to get the undesired traits out of the flock (like dominant white) that it had introduced. First generation were about 50/50% for getting the size genes and some degree of rapid growth. By the second generation, those traits were pretty much a distant memory.
I'm not looking for a sustainable meat bird - that's not my end goal - meat birds are a pretty specialized critter near the extreme end of chicken variation. But if I were to start a sustainable meatbird project, I'd more likely start with a "colored broiler", a "ranger", or similar. The first thing I'd give up is everything that makes a Cx special in order to start with a more robust, admittedly somewhat smaller and slower growing, bird that wasn't deliberately bred to be a replacable commodity rather than a self-renewing resource.
I'm not looking for a sustainable meat bird - that's not my end goal - meat birds are a pretty specialized critter near the extreme end of chicken variation. But if I were to start a sustainable meatbird project, I'd more likely start with a "colored broiler", a "ranger", or similar. The first thing I'd give up is everything that makes a Cx special in order to start with a more robust, admittedly somewhat smaller and slower growing, bird that wasn't deliberately bred to be a replacable commodity rather than a self-renewing resource.
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I wanted to both Informative and Love this comment both, for the respectful way it approaches the subject and the information contained. I settled on Informative, please consider this post to be the love.
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