Cocci?

[ND]

(Under Managing your Flock, I posted about possibly culling my flock to start over...this is SORT of a related question before I do that)

Have a bird that was previously treated with Tylan 50 not long ago due to respiratory symptoms. Did the "trick" and pullet returned to active, normal... very healthy acting.
Yesterday, the pullet (about 16 weeks old, I think), was acting listless. Stayed in the coop most of the day, slept, hunkered down... is eating and drinking but not up to par. The day before, the pullet was 100% fine acting.

It is NOT exhibiting signs of anything respiratory again, just inactive, 'sleepy' and not eating/drinking as well as it should. It will mostly stand/sit with eyes closed, but does move around some still. Everyone else seems active and normal.
We had rain for the last two days, if that matters, a good storm rolled through the evening before these symptoms appeared.

Poop seems completely normal right now, but I was only checking roosts/coop... haven't 'caught' this one going yet. (Plan to bring it in the house to monitor it)


Another older hen (well over a year old) began acting the same way several days ago... I don't know exactly when, but it's been 3 days since I noticed it. She is isolated. When noticed in the coop/run, she would mostly just stand in place (rarely even sitting, even in the coop at night) with eyes shut. She WILL NOT eat or drink...and hasn't in two days. Very little poop coming from her (just from me force feeding her some yogurt and water by syringe), and it's thin (but not watery) and green with at least half of it white.

Eyes clear, nostrils seem clear, breathing seems clear (no rattles, no sneezing, etc), comb color was/is normal (starting to fade, obviously, on the one isolated hen)... they don't seem especially ruffled in feathers, but sit/stand with their neck down/shoulders up.


COULD this be cocci? Even in the older hen?
No bloody poop (yet), but do the other symptoms seem on target?

I have some Corid 9.6% liquid... have mixed it for the hen, but she won't eat/drink unless I syringe feed her. I don't think she'll make it, and I should probably cull her. It's been days since she's eaten.


Is their harm in mixing the Corid in their water, for the non-symptomatic ones? Even the older ones? (two of laying age, one is currently laying)


I hate to cull them all (as I was discussing in the other post) if this is totally unrelated and possibly cocci that I could treat/prevent in the others.



Other related information:

They are on FLOCK RAISER crumbles, with oyster shells available to the layers. (no medicated feed since the flock is of mixes ages)
There is NO sign of mites/lice/worms. Birds have previous been dewormed not very long ago. (safeguard paste orally, and ivomec pour on drops at a later date on their backs)
No respiratory symptoms at this time with anyone.
No abnormal looking droppings at this time.
Besides attempting to treat the water for the one isolated hen, the only 'treatment' thus far for these symptoms have been Poly-Vy-Sol drops/no iron (yesterday) and electrolytes in the water.
Feed/treats are fresh/non moldy.
No rodent inhabitants around.
Pine shavings/deep litter method.



ANY advice?

 

[dawnchick]

I would say cocci is a distinct possibility despite the lack of bloody diarrhea, which is a later symptom. You are describing early symptoms. If it were my flock I would certainly give it a try. I know nothing about how to administer it, though.

Cocci is much more prevalent in some areas of the US than others; some people seem to have to treat for it regularly. I have never treated for it.

 

[MotherJean]

At this point, what have you got to lose? Treat for cocci. Use Sulmet instead of the Corrid. Sulmet is a sulfa drug used to treat bacterial infections in addition to the cocci protozoa. So, you get twice the bang for your buck. If it's not cocci, then maybe it's a bacterial infection that Sulmet will be effective against. Corrid is not an antibiotic and it only treats cocci.

Did anyone tell you that respiratory problems in chickens are referred to as "chronic" respiratory disease? It's called chronic because treatment with antibiotics can alleviate the symptoms of the disease, but it does not cure. That chicken is still technically sick and potentially a carrier of the disease who can infect other birds. Since you have actually considered culling your entire flock and starting over, I'd like to suggest that you contact your local agricultural extension agency and ask about sending the 16 week old pullet out for euthanasia and postmortem exam. I think it would be ultimately worthwhile to you to know EXACTLY what disease you're dealing with so you can decide if it's something you are willing and able to deal with in the rest of your flock or whether it's best to cull all of them and start over. An added benefit is that you have the opportunity to speak with poultry professionals (including a Vet) who can give you expert advice. That's something you simply can't get here on the forum. However well-intentioned we are, we are all just giving you our best guesses.

Good luck and do let us know what you decide to do.

 

[ND]

Thanks!

On the sulmet, I can ONLY find the oblets-- called and looked everywhere. No one has the powder form. I suppose I could still use it IF I could figure out exactly how much of an oblet to dissolve into the water... but I have no idea! The Oblets are doses based on 100lbs of body weight each, according to the package. (for cows, etc) If it would work to mix it in water... I just have no idea how much to mix into a gallon.

I put Corid in for now... since that's one of the things I have and know the dose.


I do know that the respiratory symptoms were most likely some type of infection that makes them be a carrier now, or prone to 'flare ups' under stress. I thought this might be a 'flare up' of some sort, but it's not showing any respiratory symptoms at all. I now have an all in/out flock... and culling the entire flock is likely if I continue to have various non-stop issues.

I've been trying to figure out the number/agency to call to ask about a necropsy. The one pullet that is acting poorly now IS one of the ones that showed the respiratory symptoms-- probably showed them worse than the others, and took a bit longer to recover. Only 3 out of the flock exhibited symptoms-- but I can only assume they are all carriers/exposed at this point.


I haven't culled yet mainly because I hate to cull seemingly healthy, active birds. (except for the two ill now) None of the rest have ever shown symptoms of anything...so far. But at the same time, I can't continue to treat them nonstop if they continue to relapse one by one.

If this happens to be cocci or something else, I'll treat and see where we're at after that before culling the seemingly healthy birds right now.

I have Corid in the water now...for ALL.
Ill ones are isolated.
If any of the unaffected ones begin to act poorly, that may just seal the entire flocks fate at this point, so I can sanitize and begin again with a (hopefully) clean flock.



Any idea if I can dissolve Sulmet oblets into water for treatment and if so...how much?

 

[dawnchick]

You've already got the Corid so I would use it. I would choose it over Sulmet, or before resorting to Sulmet, in this situation, anyway. There is a debate about the two. Sulmet might work when Corid doesn't, depending on the strain, but Corid does get a lot of cocci. Also. Sulmet is much rougher on the birds.

 

[MotherJean]

This link should help you contact your local cooperative extension agency: http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/index.html

Also, the USDA provides a toll free number to report sick birds and get referred to a Vet:

To Reach USDA Veterinarians
Toll-free

1-866-536-7593

They should be able to help you get a necropsy (if you want one) at no charge.

Can't even begin to help you with the Sulmet unless I know how many birds you'd be treating and how much water they drink per day (on average). My feed store has Sulmet as a liquid. The clerks at my local feedstore aren't much use when I go in looking for drugs. Maybe you should take those oblets back and scan the shelves for a bottle of the liquid - not powder.