Cochin breeding, genetics, and showing

[jbear]

Quote:
feathers pointing backwards on the hocks. it's pretty obvious looking when you see them, that they aren't correct...unless it's on a breed that calls for them--like the booted's. Google some images of 'vulture hock' or 'booted bantams' and you will get some good ideas of what to look for.

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
feathers pointing backwards on the hocks. it's pretty obvious looking when you see them, that they aren't correct...unless it's on a breed that calls for them--like the booted's. Google some images of 'vulture hock' or 'booted bantams' and you will get some good ideas of what to look for.

You should also note these "Vulture hock" feathers are much harder feather than the normal feathers, it is also normal for very young birds to have what appear to be vulture hocks as they begin to feather thier legs. Do not cull too early for this.

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

Quote:
If I were a bettin man (I do play the lottery every once in a while), I'd say that at least your Birchen females are from a Columbian X Black cross. Your Birchen male is showing fairly nice color, and pattern (although there is some shafting in the breast), but the females look a little incomplete in the hackle lacing. It doesn't surprise me at all that you got a Columbian from breeding these Birchens together, especially if the Birchens were out of a Columbian X Black cross. Most likely you'll see more of them along the way.

Tom

Hummmmmm.............well this all very interesting. Do you have any idea what I might expect as far as quality, meaning is there any chance of getting a well marked Columbian or are they most likely all going to be muddled in some way.
Gosh.......I knew that breeding patterned birds was going to be difficult, but I had no idea just how difficult it really is.

It is amazing how much the Columbians change as they molt. I don't have a for sure answer for you but would guess that the wing color will be weak but type probably good. Remember type first!

 

[ChickLover98]

Quote:
feathers pointing backwards on the hocks. it's pretty obvious looking when you see them, that they aren't correct...unless it's on a breed that calls for them--like the booted's. Google some images of 'vulture hock' or 'booted bantams' and you will get some good ideas of what to look for.

You should also note these "Vulture hock" feathers are much harder feather than the normal feathers, it is also normal for very young birds to have what appear to be vulture hocks as they begin to feather thier legs. Do not cull too early for this.

Ohh, ok. Does it occur in frizzles?

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
You should also note these "Vulture hock" feathers are much harder feather than the normal feathers, it is also normal for very young birds to have what appear to be vulture hocks as they begin to feather thier legs. Do not cull too early for this.

Ohh, ok. Does it occur in frizzles?

Could not say, I have no Frizzled chickens nor any experience with them.

 

[lilcrow]

Quote:
That's what I thought.........however I know the black markings on her back are not OK. I wonder if those will molt out or get darker?

we raise Columbian pattern birds in two breeds, when young the black on teh back is fairly common, it does molt out near maturity, however to get very well colored males you need a few pullets or hens with some black in thier back it improves saddle stripping in the males, For cleaner backed hens you will want a male that is very weak in saddle striping. one should never give up good black wing primaries or black primary tail feathers. Getting the lacing correct on female tail primaries and secondaries may also result in males that either demonstrate the same lacing or some white in the sickles. there are a few trics to getting the color right. I should also note not to give up the white leading edge of teh primary flight feathers it os difficullt to get back and will lead to very dirty backed pullets, and hens.

It sounds like it is necessary to practice double breeding to get the correct pattern on the Columbians. I have Partridges and I intend to double breed them, but so far I don't have enough offspring to select from. I'm hatching every eggs I can get from them and the Birchens, but hatch rate has been really bad this year.

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
we raise Columbian pattern birds in two breeds, when young the black on teh back is fairly common, it does molt out near maturity, however to get very well colored males you need a few pullets or hens with some black in thier back it improves saddle stripping in the males, For cleaner backed hens you will want a male that is very weak in saddle striping. one should never give up good black wing primaries or black primary tail feathers. Getting the lacing correct on female tail primaries and secondaries may also result in males that either demonstrate the same lacing or some white in the sickles. there are a few trics to getting the color right. I should also note not to give up the white leading edge of teh primary flight feathers it os difficullt to get back and will lead to very dirty backed pullets, and hens.

It sounds like it is necessary to practice double breeding to get the correct pattern on the Columbians. I have Partridges and I intend to double breed them, but so far I don't have enough offspring to select from. I'm hatching every eggs I can get from them and the Birchens, but hatch rate has been really bad this year.

The Columbian Pattern can be single mated with a fair amount of success, but is best dowuble mated. Have you considered bringing in an actual Birchen to set the color, and pattern as well actual Birchen genetically? It would take some time to get back to good Cochin Type but would eliminate all the color culls in teh process.

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

I bred a Columbian Cochin male to a very good Black pullet this spring. The goal is to get a better winged bird that carried Columbian genes to breed back to my Columbians to further improve their wings and keep type or improve. In 4 years I will be able to tell you tell you if I got the desired results. Some of the resulting birds were silver based Birchen like and some gold based Birchen.
This is one of the remaining males. OK type but not an improvement over the Columbians of the same age.

This is the only pullet left. Doesn't look as good in the pic as in pen. Showing good wings and type. Probably the only bird that has the potential to breed back to Columbians.

Craig

 

[lilcrow]

Quote:
It sounds like it is necessary to practice double breeding to get the correct pattern on the Columbians. I have Partridges and I intend to double breed them, but so far I don't have enough offspring to select from. I'm hatching every eggs I can get from them and the Birchens, but hatch rate has been really bad this year.

The Columbian Pattern can be single mated with a fair amount of success, but is best dowuble mated. Have you considered bringing in an actual Birchen to set the color, and pattern as well actual Birchen genetically? It would take some time to get back to good Cochin Type but would eliminate all the color culls in teh process.

Do you mean using a OEGB to get the pattern? I don't think I could justify that. Did you look at the pics of my birds. I asked for critical feedback, what do you see that is wrong with them in your opinion?

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
The Columbian Pattern can be single mated with a fair amount of success, but is best dowuble mated. Have you considered bringing in an actual Birchen to set the color, and pattern as well actual Birchen genetically? It would take some time to get back to good Cochin Type but would eliminate all the color culls in teh process.

Do you mean using a OEGB to get the pattern? I don't think I could justify that. Did you look at the pics of my birds. I asked for critical feedback, what do you see that is wrong with them in your opinion?

I would never use OE with a Cochin, they are so far apart it would not make any sense what so ever... there are other bantams and breeds out there that are based on actual Birchen genetics, what you have is a cross that has a appearance of Birchen. The "Birchen" Stops there.
they will never, based on the genetic make-up, breed true and you will continue to see the Columbian and other things pop out of those birds.
As for telling you what is wrong with your cochins I will not, they are only available to me in a limited view of a photo. I try not to judge a bird by a photo as the photos do not tell teh story of teh bird and there is so much more than a photo can tell.