Cockerel Confusion

[Aunt Angus]

Ok, BYCers... I am on the site all the time because I love chickens and love learning about them. Most of the time, I can find exactly the answer I need for a particular conundrum. But searching for info about cockerels and the roos they will inevitably become is resulting in frustration and further confusion. Most BYCers have strong opinions on cockerels and roosters, but rarely do these opinions mesh. So I am asking a tired question in hopes that the BYCers who I have come to "know" and those who "know" me might chime in (rather than reading opinions from 2008, for example).

I have acquired 3 babies. They are now 5 weeks old, and I am certain 1 of the Silkies is a cockerel. Chances are the Sebright is one, too. I can have roosters where I live - my neighbors even asked if I would get one because they *want* to hear it crowing! How often does that happen?!

Anyhoo - I've read that roosters are best raised with a "hands off" approach. Well, these think I'm mama. They freaking love me. They follow me around and refuse to sleep at night if I am not holding them (although last night, all I had to do was be next to the brooder where they could see me). Ain't no hands off happening here. And I have too many males, so unless they miraculously get along, one or both will have to go. (No, I won't eat them. I will have to find them a nice home somewhere; I have a couple of people in mind).

Questions:
1) Will the imprinting make raising and keeping a rooster worse/more difficult?

2) And, if so, what can I do about it?

3) Is it even worth keeping a rooster for someone who is inexperienced and a softy? I can train a dog, but a rooster???

Extra info: I have a small flock of four 11 month old large fowl pullets and one 3 month old pullet. The third baby in the brooder with the suspected cockerels is a Silkie. I have a 1-acre fenced yard they can free range in. I have a 32 sq ft coop they sleep in and lay eggs in and a covered run I just expanded to 163 sq ft. I have no small children, only a 22 yr old who has autism.

 

[Taj_MaChicken]

I'm curious about the hands-on approach advice.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

They follow me around and refuse to sleep at night if I am not holding them (although last night, all I had to do was be next to the brooder where they could see me). Ain't no hands off happening here.

Sounds like hell to me... Put them down and walk away... they WILL shut up and go to sleep. But they are creatures of habit and any change will make them complain.

1) Each bird is an individual. Hand raising *could* make for an awesome bird. In my experience it makes for little devils who attack the keeper once hormones kick in. But your mileage may vary.

2) you can switch to a hands off approach and start walking through them. Or you can keep on your current path and see what happens.

3) Honestly hen flocks are often more peaceful when they don't have a cockerel harassing them. Cockerels are totally different creatures than a mature rooster. I would NOT keep a cockerel if I had no intention of hatching as I don't consider them protection from (my) predators but just a front line sacrifice... if they even go to the front line, many don't... I keep ALL my cockerels TOGETHER in a stag pen to gain some maturity BEFORE any get access to MY ladies. They get to practice with each other and through the fence to the ladies with their wing drop shuffle dance and treat calling. I have NOT been attacked since I quit allowing "lap" cockerels. I still handle them, but on MY terms not theirs. Please note my attacker was an alleged NON aggressive breed and my first and only lap cockerel. I was shocked when someone (@Mrs. K ) told another poster the "sweet" rooster would be her first to go. Then she explained why when I asked, which made sense and despite following her advice it was too late for my handsome fella to reform (what hadn't even started YET). I was so in love, I tolerated months of being stalked, sneak attacked, and relentlessly crowed at directly before his attitude sent him to his final fate which was not as a flock leader.

To my point about individuality... Silkies claimed by many to be such a docile breed... have been some of my biggest bastards... to me and to each other... but NOT all. I actively select for personality NOW.

I saw one poster who said they raise all their cockerels very hands on and consider it a better test of personality. Wish I had the commitment to try that. But alas... there is a limit to how many lap birds are good thing. So I will take the few hens that are and let the rest do what suits them better.

My large fowl ladies won't really allow the bantam roos to mate them. Some boys insist and it looks like a cowboy at the rodeo waving his hat while he's on the back of the bucking bronco. My friend has a few of her large fowl ladies that will squat for her bantam roosters.... ONLY the ones who were raised the same age or younger them and have learned to be submissive since boy hormones kick in early than female in chickens. The ones who aren't the same age or younger basically think the bantam genetics don't measure up to be worthy of allowing their seed to spread through them. Nature is soo interesting!

When having more than one cockerel maturing at a time, they will often pick the most docile female in the group (the only one they can get to squat) and chase her, hold her down and take turns mating her... every time she catches their eye. Since there are only two it might not be as bad as when there is a group of them. But yes, they rather help each other mate than fight for the right to do so.

Alternatively... they may be calm, mate when possible, crow here and there and have zero issue with each other. It's never a problem until it is... and sometimes it isn't! Having more than one boy in a flock is perfectly doable even without over mating... depending on YOUR flock dynamics, and YOUR boys.

Post #18 int he following thread link is the one peeps clamor to for rooster training. I tried it, didn't work for me, not my current style... but still good information to give us clues about rooster behavior..
Rooster Training

My rooster raised hands off but walked through... was the best boy ever, and a very missed member of my flock! I have raised a LOT of cockerels as is needed for truly breeding quality. Some would go after the dogs from across the yard for playing fetch. They quickly went to freezer camp as the dogs have been here since day one the cockerels should have enough discernment to just stay out of the way of the dogs by the time they reach protective stage. Others may know they don't appreciate a dog landing near them with a Frisbee, but step out of the way, make a griping noise and go on about their business.

Please note that to me having scuffles is a normal part of "getting along" as long as one isn't a relentless jerk trying to run the other off. Lot's of folks have more than one "rooster" in their flock and even smaller ratios than are suggested without over mating issues. While others have only one boy with 20 hens and STILL have over mating issues... because their boy has a favorite or two (or because the other hens might be leghorn type and better at escaping the advances).

Whether it's worth it or not is a very personal choice. They are beautiful and can be quite entertaining fantastic flock members. Some start crowing at 2 or 4 Am. Some crow obsessively ALL day long. While others only crow first thing in the morning and a few times throughout the day. Some crows are easy on the ears and other are superbly annoying. LOL, am I helping at all! Yes, crowing is another thing I select for.

Some of my neighbors did express concern for the noise that MIGHT happen as weather is often great and people still sleep with their windows open... With an open heart I let them know if they approach me if they have any issue that I would work to correct it. Some years I have more than 25 cockerels growing and crowing at a time... and NOT one complaint YET.

With the neighbors being more on board than not... If I were you, I MIGHT try keeping both... but make a plan B in case you experience human aggression or over mating. If you are able financially and like them, a stag pen is perfectly good option which *could* help curb or prevent both issues. If you want the boys to tolerate each other long term.. I would not separate them out of sight of the other for any period of time allowing one to start feeling territorial or too cocky.

Anyways.. with so much food for thought, you MUST be getting full of my rambling by now!

There is no one true answer that will fit everyone! I will say, in my experience... a rooster free flock is an easier flock. Finding out if the good outweighs the bad has so many variables.

Hope you have a wonderful adventure... whatever you decide!

 

[Aunt Angus]

Sounds like hell to me... Put them down and walk away... they WILL shut up and go to sleep. But they are creatures of habit and any change will make them complain.

1) Each bird is an individual. Hand raising *could* make for an awesome bird. In my experience it makes for little devils who attack the keeper once hormones kick in. But your mileage may vary.

2) you can switch to a hands off approach and start walking through them. Or you can keep on your current path and see what happens.

3) Honestly hen flocks are often more peaceful when they don't have a cockerel harassing them. Cockerels are totally different creatures than a mature rooster. I would NOT keep a cockerel if I had no intention of hatching as I don't consider them protection from (my) predators but just a front line sacrifice... if they even go to the front line, many don't... I keep ALL my cockerels TOGETHER in a stag pen to gain some maturity BEFORE any get access to MY ladies. They get to practice with each other and through the fence to the ladies with their wing drop shuffle dance and treat calling. I have NOT been attacked since I quit allowing "lap" cockerels. I still handle them, but on MY terms not theirs. Please note my attacker was an alleged NON aggressive breed and my first and only lap cockerel. I was shocked when someone (@Mrs. K ) told another poster the "sweet" rooster would be her first to go. Then she explained why when I asked, which made sense and despite following her advice it was too late for my handsome fella to reform (what hadn't even started YET). I was so in love, I tolerated months of being stalked, sneak attacked, and relentlessly crowed at directly before his attitude sent him to his final fate which was not as a flock leader.

To my point about individuality... Silkies claimed by many to be such a docile breed... have been some of my biggest bastards... to me and to each other... but NOT all. I actively select for personality NOW.

I saw one poster who said they raise all their cockerels very hands on and consider it a better test of personality. Wish I had the commitment to try that. But alas... there is a limit to how many lap birds are good thing. So I will take the few hens that are and let the rest do what suits them better.

My large fowl ladies won't really allow the bantam roos to mate them. Some boys insist and it looks like a cowboy at the rodeo waving his hat while he's on the back of the bucking bronco. My friend has a few of her large fowl ladies that will squat for her bantam roosters.... ONLY the ones who were raised the same age or younger them and have learned to be submissive since boy hormones kick in early than female in chickens. The ones who aren't the same age or younger basically think the bantam genetics don't measure up to be worthy of allowing their seed to spread through them. Nature is soo interesting!

When having more than one cockerel maturing at a time, they will often pick the most docile female in the group (the only one they can get to squat) and chase her, hold her down and take turns mating her... every time she catches their eye. Since there are only two it might not be as bad as when there is a group of them. But yes, they rather help each other mate than fight for the right to do so.

Alternatively... they may be calm, mate when possible, crow here and there and have zero issue with each other. It's never a problem until it is... and sometimes it isn't! Having more than one boy in a flock is perfectly doable even without over mating... depending on YOUR flock dynamics, and YOUR boys.

Post #18 int he following thread link is the one peeps clamor to for rooster training. I tried it, didn't work for me, not my current style... but still good information to give us clues about rooster behavior..
Rooster Training

My rooster raised hands off but walked through... was the best boy ever, and a very missed member of my flock! I have raised a LOT of cockerels as is needed for truly breeding quality. Some would go after the dogs from across the yard for playing fetch. They quickly went to freezer camp as the dogs have been here since day one the cockerels should have enough discernment to just stay out of the way of the dogs by the time they reach protective stage. Others may know they don't appreciate a dog landing near them with a Frisbee, but step out of the way, make a griping noise and go on about their business.

Please note that to me having scuffles is a normal part of "getting along" as long as one isn't a relentless jerk trying to run the other off. Lot's of folks have more than one "rooster" in their flock and even smaller ratios than are suggested without over mating issues. While others have only one boy with 20 hens and STILL have over mating issues... because their boy has a favorite or two (or because the other hens might be leghorn type and better at escaping the advances).

Whether it's worth it or not is a very personal choice. They are beautiful and can be quite entertaining fantastic flock members. Some start crowing at 2 or 4 Am. Some crow obsessively ALL day long. While others only crow first thing in the morning and a few times throughout the day. Some crows are easy on the ears and other are superbly annoying. LOL, am I helping at all! Yes, crowing is another thing I select for.

Some of my neighbors did express concern for the noise that MIGHT happen as weather is often great and people still sleep with their windows open... With an open heart I let them know if they approach me if they have any issue that I would work to correct it. Some years I have more than 25 cockerels growing and crowing at a time... and NOT one complaint YET.

With the neighbors being more on board than not... If I were you, I MIGHT try keeping both... but make a plan B in case you experience human aggression or over mating. If you are able financially and like them, a stag pen is perfectly good option which *could* help curb or prevent both issues. If you want the boys to tolerate each other long term.. I would not separate them out of sight of the other for any period of time allowing one to start feeling territorial or too cocky.

Anyways.. with so much food for thought, you MUST be getting full of my rambling by now!

There is no one true answer that will fit everyone! I will say, in my experience... a rooster free flock is an easier flock. Finding out if the good outweighs the bad has so many variables.

Hope you have a wonderful adventure... whatever you decide!

Oh! This is a fantastic reply! Ypur answers/advice just made my day! I am a terrible over-thinker. I have been stewing over this for a couple of weeks - since I realized little Dandelion is a boy. At first, I was like, "One roo? No problem!" Then Picotee's comb started developing. Panic kind of set in.

I can walk through them. That's easy. And they are getting less and less dependent with each passing day. I was just kind of worried that if they think I'm mom, they won't ever fear/respect me, and I'd end up with two nasty roosters. So many posts about roos are negative. So many just end up killing their roos. I can't do that. I just can't. I'm not that pragmatic.

That being said, I do want to try to keep them if for no other reason than to educate myself. They are inseperable now since hormones haven't kicked in. They are still in the house in the brooder because they seem so small and needy as bantams and it's really hot this week. I'm headed to Utah for a week. When I get back, they will go outside in the isolation pen in the coop with the big girls.

I guess it really does depend on individual birds. So far, they seem fine. The Silkie is more mellow. The Sebright more highstrung. But they are always together. The pullet with them is the most laid back thing ever and is more aloof.

I guess I will wait and see? The horror stories just make me soooooo nervous.... It's a big responsibility. I just don't want to screw it up and make my birds mean.

 

[Aunt Angus]

And I saved that post you referenced. Beekissed is the bestest.

Thanks again!

 

[Wolfefarmyard]

My personal experience is this:

I’ve hand raised and coddled almost all of my birds. I see them as pets not livestock. So they get a lot of loving from me. I’ve had a lot of roosters, and out of them I’ve had maybe 2 aggressive ones.

So what I think is it ultimately depends on the individual bird, and possibly the breed. Since some breeds are known to be more aggressive than others. But it’s still possible to have a nice boy out of a bad bunch!

Good luck!

 

[Aunt Angus]

Very good to know! What breeds, in your opinion, are less aggressive? Which are more aggressive? I've read a lot of conflicting info, but I'd really appreciate your opinion, seeing as how our chickens are pets.

 

[Pekin747]

I'd definitely stop being around when they r sleeping because before u know it theyll be in with the others and they they will squeal all night to u show up not doing u them or the others any good
But it sounds like they will have a lovely life other wise and I hope u can keep the silkie I personally think they r one of the coolest kindest breeds of chickens

 

[Wolfefarmyard]

Very good to know! What breeds, in your opinion, are less aggressive? Which are more aggressive? I've read a lot of conflicting info, but I'd really appreciate your opinion, seeing as how our chickens are pets.

I’m my opinion silkies, Cochins and brahmas seem to be very well mannered. Brahmas and Cochins are often big gentle giants!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I was just kind of worried that if they think I'm mom, they won't ever fear/respect me

That may happen. You just never know. But mum's set the pecking order from day one and when the time comes, before mating hormones have kicked in for the kids... she ALWAYS boots them to the curb and starts pecking them away from her. She quits calling them to treats and starts letting them know that she eats first.

I am one of the biggest over thinkers I know... and it seems to be common condition for many members. Glad there are lot's of us to bounce our ideas off of.

Chickens know we aren't the same species as them... but they may still think we are included in the pecking order. I let them check me out and peck AT me like lint and such. But if someone drops a wing to me... I put a quick beat down on them... a smack to the back of the head, or a peck and quick chase to send them off. Usually kicking at intensifies the situation. Or if I am petting at roost time and the peck... I peck right back with my finger.

I don't want to be included in the pecking order... I want to be the giant that brings feed.

I don't think we MAKE birds mean, I think we mostly misunderstand them. No matter what WE do... all are individuals... I keep telling myself on my first turkey tom adventure. Man, I so feared roosters when I first started. Probably my biggest mistake. My favorite breed rooster so far... Marans. Least favorite... maybe Swedish Flower. But I KNOW all are individuals so try not to be racist. It's fun to see the other posts... I raised 3 Brahma, and 1 was such a jerk it required a time out from the flock before 6 weeks old. Flock jerk, not human jerk.

I do have some chickens who still have pet status, and that's how my whole adventure started. I just learned too much about factory raised meat and altered my practice some. My Marans rooster was such a good boy he would never have graced the table had he not met an unexpected demise and i was able to just "waste" the life/meat having been taught waste not want not. It was difficult transition to make but a worthy endeavor for that pint in my life. I knew I had to have a responsible plan in pace before I started hatching 50% boys. Buying humane, pasture raised meat and decreasing my consumption in addition to what I produce myself were two changes that came about from my understanding towards the circle of life since this started. One thing I don't regret at all is NOW I have the skill and confidence to euthanize a hen should one face the need. Not trying to change anyone's' mind about pet verses livestock, just sharing an unexpected bonus. It's not "right" for everyone. And I find myself gravitating BACK to the pet aspect, so not even sure how much longer I will keep roosters either. When I quit hatching, I might not keep one UNLESS he just stands out as a wonderful flock member.

If I weren't hatching, I would not likely have made that transition. But I am thankful for the rounded understanding it has brought with regards to my place in this world.