Color genetics question.

[Cattle dog Mom]

If someone was wanting to make citron spitzhaubens (which as far as I know aren't available in the US.) what color spitz would you cross with a cream brabanter to try to accomplish this? Would golden work? Or would that just make more goldens and no chance of the cream gene coming thru? Or would another color be better? And if anyone knows of a good website about chicken color genetics, can you please pass it on. (Not that color calculator. That doesn't help at this point. (Pic of a citron spitzhauben.)

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[The Kooky Kiwi]

I'm also doing a citron project - but with a laced type (Sebrights) - so I have had much the same questions!!

There are two aspects to a project like yours and mine.
1) Introducing the right gene to get the colour your want; and
2) Dealing with the result of combining the two bird types

In terms of the color, The general consensus is that Citron is a diluted version of gold. There are more than one set of genes identified that act as diluters in this way. On the kippenjungle calculator they are listed as Champagne Blonde and Dilute. My advice is to avoid using silver birds in your project - stick with gold. Perhaps someone with experience with the Spitz and Brabanters can add more here on how the dilute works on those birds

Then you're going to need to plan for the inevitable blending of all other factors. Bird size, comb type, henny tailed or not?, what ground colour, shank colour etc etc. Blending two types has the potential to break away from the traditional "standard" for each and you need to decide what it is that you're aiming for. To breed back to one particular standard or have something of a mix that you like for your own purposes.

 

[Cattle dog Mom]

I'm also doing a citron project - but with a laced type (Sebrights) - so I have had much the same questions!!

There are two aspects to a project like yours and mine.
1) Introducing the right gene to get the colour your want; and
2) Dealing with the result of combining the two bird types

In terms of the color, The general consensus is that Citron is a diluted version of gold. There are more than one set of genes identified that act as diluters in this way. On the kippenjungle calculator they are listed as Champagne Blonde and Dilute. My advice is to avoid using silver birds in your project - stick with gold. Perhaps someone with experience with the Spitz and Brabanters can add more here on how the dilute works on those birds

Then you're going to need to plan for the inevitable blending of all other factors. Bird size, comb type, henny tailed or not?, what ground colour, shank colour etc etc. Blending two types has the potential to break away from the traditional "standard" for each and you need to decide what it is that you're aiming for. To breed back to one particular standard or have something of a mix that you like for your own purposes.

With cream brabanters the color is the same (at least in appearance) as a citron spitz. Comb type is the same (both breeds have v combs) and size is about the same. They look a LOOOT alike aside from the beards and muffs on the brabanters. (Cream brabanter hen pictured.)

 

[Amer]

I’d use gold hens. Sounds like a good plan for a project. You *could* also create these crossing silver and gold Spitzhaubens since the silver may carry the cream genes, but you never know for sure whether they will carry it or not. So your plan is good. Cross gold Spitzhaubens with cream Brabanters. Spitzhaubens are so beautiful and distinctive.

 

[Cattle dog Mom]

I’d use gold hens. Sounds like a good plan for a project. You *could* also create these crossing silver and gold Spitzhaubens since the silver may carry the cream genes, but you never know for sure whether they will carry it or not. So your plan is good. Cross gold Spitzhaubens with cream Brabanters. Spitzhaubens are so beautiful and distinctive.

Thank you. I know a lot of people hate the cream gene. But I LOVE it. I have learned since I posted this that there are a few citron spitzhaubens in the US. But this would still be a fun project for ME without having to have eggs shipped. And I think they will be cute either way! (I don't want silver, it is too common, "everyone" has silver spitz. LOL) I may end up with some chamois too since the breeder I talked to this morning about the goldens also has chamois.(Color pictured below.)

 

[Amer]

Thank you. I know a lot of people hate the cream gene. But I LOVE it. I have learned since I posted this that there are a few citron spitzhaubens in the US. But this would still be a fun project for ME without having to have eggs shipped. And I think they will be cute either way! (I don't want silver, it is too common, "everyone" has silver spitz. LOL) I may end up with some chamois too since the breeder I talked to this morning about the goldens also has chamois.(Color pictured below.)View attachment 2494915

Ooo! Very pretty!

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Both your beginning stock types are gorgeous birds in their own right.

I expect the mixes between the two will be equally gorgeous in their own way so a win/win project imho!
Be sure to post photos here so we can all drool at what you get

 

[Cattle dog Mom]

Both your beginning stock types are gorgeous birds in their own right.

I expect the mixes between the two will be equally gorgeous in their own way so a win/win project imho!
Be sure to post photos here so we can all drool at what you get

Thanks. I think it might be something fun to do. Not in any big way. Mostly for the fun of it. (Course it would help if I had EITHER breed. Heck I don't have chickens at all yet. But I have sold all of my horses and need something to DO. It is kind of weird after breeding horses for almost 30 years to not have ANY.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Thanks. I think it might be something fun to do. Not in any big way. Mostly for the fun of it. (Course it would help if I had EITHER breed. Heck I don't have chickens at all yet. But I have sold all of my horses and need something to DO. It is kind of weird after breeding horses for almost 30 years to not have ANY.

I know the feeling entirely! I used to have aviaries and breed asiatic parrots (plus a few wildlife rescues). I sold all of those and really missed the birds.. so here I am several years later with chickens. First it's two chickens (my backyard pets back when I was urban) and now that I'm on the farm I have "looooots" LOL.

I decided that simply breeding a new batch of replacement hens each year was a bit boring .. so I decided to do my wee project. Purely for myself really but if others want to join in later that would be cool

 

[Cattle dog Mom]

I know the feeling entirely! I used to have aviaries and breed asiatic parrots (plus a few wildlife rescues). I sold all of those and really missed the birds.. so here I am several years later with chickens. First it's two chickens (my backyard pets back when I was urban) and now that I'm on the farm I have "looooots" LOL.

I decided that simply breeding a new batch of replacement hens each year was a bit boring .. so I decided to do my wee project. Purely for myself really but if others want to join in later that would be cool

That's how I feel too. (I got some heritage turkeys in October so I have those 5 to give me something to do too.)