Color genetics thread.

[Bama1]

A chocolate orp is...well uh chocolate.  Woman DO like their [COLOR=8B4513]chocolates[/COLOR]...


http://poultrykeeper.com/chicken-breeds/the-chocolate-orpington

Tim Daniels gives a nice summary on breeding outcomes for chocolates which are gender linked in chickens and ducks.  

What genders were the colours for this male's parents?

A Black male is the only bird that may be BLACK but carry chocolate...and therefore produce chocolate offspring when he himself is not a chocolate. in the union.

I find your term:​

confusing if this is not the Father.  ​

Your male, to me, does not look particularly chocolate in the respect of what I have seen as chocolate in chickens...they are, well for the most part...just chocolate with maybe a touch of beetle green sheen perhaps.

Maybe someone else may assist and say what your male appears to be.   

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGK/Orps/BRKOrps.html

I just scrolled thru FS and did not see anything that really looks like your male. 

I am going to go crack open my Grant 21st Century colour book...he had Clive's choco genetics to play with and maybe I can find a match to yours...

Your bird IS pretty, kinda a sunset burst type colouration on the hackle and saddle...very nice.  His tail feathers and hackles, to me in the photo, look more beetle [COLOR=008000]green[/COLOR] than [COLOR=0000FF]blue[/COLOR]...but could be the configurations on my monitor or me looking at the top of his hackles...the sides look to be a different colour than black in any shade.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

Thank you for your quick reply his father was the English Chocolate/Black fellow and mom was American black. I will look closer tomorrow at the color of the hackles I just always though it was an iridescent blue. And yes a sunburst color neck would be an accurate description. I had looked and looked for a "color" that he matches and couldn't find anything. Thank you again

 

[Adorkable]

This Partridge Chantecler cockerel is still growing in his feathers but is starting to exhibit his colourations​

He is a young male that is a pullet-breeder (note the red miscolours in his chest--for exhibition males, he needs a clean black chest), he is NOT an exhibition male but an male that makes exhibition females. I am grasping at straws on how a Partridge male Silkie might look if he was a pullet-breeder...more reds in his colour...not the black chested with reddish highlights I would expect to see in a Partridge male Silkie for exhibition. I would surmise a clean black chest and clean black tail in a male Partridge Silkie if for exhibition would be at the minimum of your expectations.

​

Does your male in question express pencillings like this in his saddle and hackle, but not crisp but fuzzy wuzzy? Parti boys are BLACK and red marked colour pattern. An exhibition Partridge male is rich brilliant red with beetle green black.

One of the reasons many of us double mate the Partridge pattern is because the girls look to be a completely different colour combination than the boys do. Basically in a super summarized nutshell, girls are RED and boys are BLACK and red.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

Thank you, this was very helpful!

 

[malndobe]

Looking at the Brockbar photos CanuckBock posted, they are exactly what I wanted to ask about. Until those photos, and a bird I have, every barred bird I have seen in person, in photos, or in breed illustrations has a barred tail. What genetics give the barred body but a solid colored tail?

 

[Tammylr]

...

Looking at the Brockbar photos CanuckBock posted, they are exactly what I wanted to ask about. Until those photos, and a bird I have, every barred bird I have seen in person, in photos, or in breed illustrations has a barred tail. What genetics give the barred body but a solid colored tail?[/quote


Wheaten lets there be a black tail but the gene site says that it can sometimes fade.

 

[malndobe]

So this bird is probably barred with wheaten genes? He had a head spot as a chick, looked a lot like a Rhodebar chick. He's a Pioneer, so a purpose bred mutt. But of the chicks I ordered 3 had head spots that ended up being roosters, and 5 had chipmunk stripes that ended up being barred hens, so I'm hoping to use these birds as the basis for an auto sexing group. Just trying to figure out if it's worth my time or not.

 

[Tammylr]

So this bird is probably barred with wheaten genes? He had a head spot as a chick, looked a lot like a Rhodebar chick. He's a Pioneer, so a purpose bred mutt. But of the chicks I ordered 3 had head spots that ended up being roosters, and 5 had chipmunk stripes that ended up being barred hens, so I'm hoping to use these birds as the basis for an auto sexing group. Just trying to figure out if it's worth my time or not.

He does look like a rhodebar. Very pretty.

 

[CanuckBock]

Thank you for your quick reply his father was the English Chocolate/Black fellow and mom was American black. I will look closer tomorrow at the color of the hackles I just always though it was an iridescent blue. And yes a sunburst color neck would be an accurate description. I had looked and looked for a "color" that he matches and couldn't find anything. Thank you again

Interesting...in Grant Brereton's 21st Century Poultry Breeding, page 26, lower right photo is similar to your male.

Caption says:

Thank you, this was very helpful!

Glad it helped you.

Looking at the Brockbar photos CanuckBock posted, they are exactly what I wanted to ask about. Until those photos, and a bird I have, every barred bird I have seen in person, in photos, or in breed illustrations has a barred tail. What genetics give the barred body but a solid colored tail?

Most often I would expect to see barred tails in my males.

​

But as the progression of crossings go on my barred/cuckoo breedings...

​

Solid coloured tail feathers begin to make appearances...this male in front has solid beetle green black in his tail feathers.

​

As does this male, solid beetle green black in some of his tail feathers.

​

More colour yet again but the red is still broken up with some subtle barring.

​

In a baby like this...you can already SEE the tail feathers will be solid, solid in no pigment white.

​

Baby like this one above becomes a male like this one on the bottom of the photo...

​

Some barring marks on the tail but also solid white feathers. Based on eb Brown and/or eWh Wheaten in this line.

Wheaten lets there be a black tail but the gene site says that it can sometimes fade.

Here is an example of what a single dose of Wheaten will do to an otherwise beetle green black tail on an eb Brown base (NO barring/cuckoo tho). The brown colour is more a diluted black or as finger painting will reveal, a mix of both chicken colour pigments, red AND black = brown (or copper in this case since the bubbles on the surface of the feather are making a green shine).

​

This male is a standard sized Red Chantecler (Partridge eb/eb x Wheaten eWh/eWh = eb/eWh).

His tail is copper, so a muted beetle green black that is diluted with red/orange.​

Wheaten eWh also disallows black markings in the hackle...so you get a clean unmarked feather in that region. This particular male lacks the Partridge "diamonds" in the hackle. Wheaten can be dominant or recessive pending what other genetics are in the combination...a rather confusing allele of the e-series.

eb Brown allows for a solid tail colour as does E Extended Black and Birchen ER, well Brichen allows for the patterned tail feathers in males, examples being MALES in Polish & Sebright have laced tails, Silver Spangled Hamburger has spangled, and the Campine has autosomal barred.

Hope some of this helps--probably clear as mud, eh?

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Bama1]

Thank you so much for the assistance!

Interesting...in Grant Brereton's 21st Century Poultry Breeding, page 26, lower right photo is similar to your male. Caption says: Not identical but the hackle and saddle have the similar "sunburst" type shading. Midportion is similar colours as your male in question. Again, the photo shows the same "sunburst" type shading in hackle and saddle and tail and middle of body similar. Grant mentions "intricacies of Lemon Hackle" and I see the British and Australian Partridge have a more lemony hackle whilst the German Partridge is more orangish. I would hedge a bet that the male in question of yours, potentially has these lighter colourations due to Grant's mention of "Lemon" hackles. Realize that the British Partridge is seen to be pretty close in colour to the widely accepted ancestor of chickens, the Red Junglefowl. So basically, with the two photos, Black-Red in OEG and pullet-breeder Partridge male Wy...yeh, pretty much your male can be seen to be reverting back to more wild type. Again, I don't SEE chocolate, and expected, won't if it is a male with a single dose of this recessive gender linked Doggone & Chicken UP! Tara Lee Higgins Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Melissa77]

I'm so lost cause I can't seem to find speciFic answers when googling. So I thought I'd try here. I'm understanding a bit about what makes what but i cant seem to simply find "how do i know what is recessive and what is dominant in my bird?"

I feel as though this is either one of those it isn't that simple or oh here's a chart kind of questions lol.

Thanks!

 

[jerryse]

I'm so lost cause I can't seem to find speciFic answers when googling. So I thought I'd try here. I'm understanding a bit about what makes what but i cant seem to simply find "how do i know what is recessive and what is dominant in my bird?"

I feel as though this is either one of those it isn't that simple or oh here's a chart kind of questions lol.

Thanks!

Since you are starting to learn it is best to go slow and learn small chunks of info . There is a lot to learn . Yes there are a few charts around but only on 1 color gene at a time . Pick a color you do not understand and ask questions about that color . It has taken me years to learn what I know . Still learning .