Colorado Shooting - How horrible!

[thaiturkey]

Countries with lax gun laws have a dilemma.

Civilians own guns so criminals are more likely to own guns.

Criminals own guns so civilians are more likely to own guns.

You might call it a vicious circle.

I'm not entirely against the licenced ownership of guns for protection at home for someone who feels the need. However, the circumstances in which such a gun is used should be carefully defined. Taking down someone who merely wanders onto your land cannot be justified. One the other hand, anyone entering my house at night would probably regret doing so. I would assume that he was willing to use violence and I'd get in first. If you have a gun in those circumstances, you are obliged to use it before the intruder uses his own or makes a grab for yours.

What I can't grasp is the desire to have heavy duty military guns that are designed only to kill people. The practice targets that I have seen owners use in video clips include silhouettes of human beings. You would be hard pressed to grab one of those weapons from the bedside cabinet and point it at an intruder with a handgun before he fired first. I can only assume that those interested in extreme weapons are living in some old cowboy world or imagining that they are in a modern infantry war and enjoy boys' role playing games.

Those who own guns for self-defence at home, what weapon and ammunition would you recommend?

 

[thaiturkey]

I can beat the anti-gun argument in a single word. Switzerland.

And here is a interesting video about Switzerland.

Also 3 of the 5 hospitals treating people of the shooting have decided to limit or waive all medical bills.

The military in Switzerland is mainly a reservist force and that's why guns are held at home. Switzerland has remained neutral during two world wars whilst surrounded by hostile nations. It's only real defence is trained and armed civilians who can be called up at a moment's notice. The comments in the video are about defending the country against attack, not shooting poachers in the woods.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Those who own guns for self-defence at home, what weapon and ammunition would you recommend?

What law enforcement uses to clear a house. Just so happens to be the 3 guns that the kid in CO used.

The glock is not my first choice for a hand gun cause of being disabled but it is a top notch bedroom or CC gun. The pump shotgun, also not my first choice for the same reason but it is the most used an effective intruder stopper. Then the AR15, one of the most well built an efficient long guns in the world today.
Most cops I know have these 3 in there homes.



Quote: Not one of these guns are a military gun.
Yes they practice by shooting human targets. No bunny will ever try to kill me. If I miss a bunny cause I did not practice on a bunny target enough I dont die. Yes these guns are built to kill people.. All guns are built to kill people.
Yes you can draw an fire on an intruder from your bed. Cause they dont just appear in your room. They have to get in the house then threw the house an find you. That takes time an makes lots of noise..

Edited to add..

Yes we are still living in some old cowboy world. The US is still a vast empty country with lots of wildlife an bad people in it. Many that have came across our southern border.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
Our military is mostly a reserve force with a draft system to call up all fighting aged men if needed. We are a country founded on militias. Though we have a huge active military, we don't have the active military to actually protect our smallest state.

 

[thaiturkey]

Our military is mostly a reserve force with a draft system to call up all fighting aged men if needed. We are a country founded on militias. Though we have a huge active military, we don't have the active military to actually protect our smallest state.

Thank you. Very interesting.

Not all of your post has appeared as 'Quote' and I refer to parts that don't show above.

It seems to me that a long barrelled gun would be a hindrance in the house.

Policemen relatives of ours have suggested that a 9mm is too powerful in the home. The bullets can pass right through the intruder without immediately stopping him and injure an innocent person. They suggested that a 22 handgun was enough for the job indoors.

Do you have an alarm system or are you certain for some other reason that you would hear an intruder in your house before he got to you? An expat. here woke one morning to find that his cash and jewellery had gone from his bedside cabinet. Someone had broken in and he didn't hear a thing. I wonder what might have happened if a gun had been lying there too.

You say you live alone and I guess that the probable aftermath of a killing in your house doesn't bother you. I wonder how a family with children would cope. Picture the scene. Young children are awakened in the middle of the night by screams and gunshots. Mum and Dad are OK but there's a body on the landing, blood everywhere and already police sirens can be heard in the street. Shocked children are interviewed. Mum and Dad may even be taken away for questioning. When it all dies down the mess has to be cleaned up and the family has to live in the house remembering every day the bloody corpse, stained carpet and blood spattered walls. All that happened because of the expectation on all sides that everyone is armed and ready for action.

I know you will refer to the possible consequences if the family didn't carry guns and I understand that point. What I'm driving at is what I wrote earlier. The dilemma is that both sides of the law expect a gun fight and so it's more likely that both sides will be armed and that a shooting will take place. Perhaps it's a century or so too late to change that.

 

[Matthew3590]

Countries with lax gun laws have a dilemma.

Civilians own guns so criminals are more likely to own guns.

Criminals own guns so civilians are more likely to own guns.

You might call it a vicious circle.

I'm not entirely against the licenced ownership of guns for protection at home for someone who feels the need. However, the circumstances in which such a gun is used should be carefully defined. Taking down someone who merely wanders onto your land cannot be justified. One the other hand, anyone entering my house at night would probably regret doing so. I would assume that he was willing to use violence and I'd get in first. If you have a gun in those circumstances, you are obliged to use it before the intruder uses his own or makes a grab for yours.

What I can't grasp is the desire to have heavy duty military guns that are designed only to kill people. The practice targets that I have seen owners use in video clips include silhouettes of human beings. You would be hard pressed to grab one of those weapons from the bedside cabinet and point it at an intruder with a handgun before he fired first. I can only assume that those interested in extreme weapons are living in some old cowboy world or imagining that they are in a modern infantry war and enjoy boys' role playing games.

Those who own guns for self-defence at home, what weapon and ammunition would you recommend?

Only problem I have with your statement is Assault rifles are not heavy duty military guns. They are considered medium sized guns. The AR-15 is a civilian weapon and not an assault rifle since it is semi-automatic only and shoots a .223. The gun that most people kill squirrels with is a .22. Very close in size. The .223 is definitely not a .22 though cause the powder behind it is insane.

 

[thaiturkey]

Only problem I have with your statement is Assault rifles are not heavy duty military guns. They are considered medium sized guns. The AR-15 is a civilian weapon and not an assault rifle since it is semi-automatic only and shoots a .223. The gun that most people kill squirrels with is a .22. Very close in size. The .223 is definitely not a .22 though cause the powder behind it is insane.

I see. So 'assault' refers to the gun's capabilities as a squirrel killer?

 

[mom'sfolly]

I been in vast tracks of American wilderness...and I've never felt the need to carry a gun.

I've lived in areas were there are very real dangers from wildlife, I've never felt the need to carry a gun.

The only one of my friends who felt the need to carry a gun, was actually issued one for work. She was counting fish on a river near Yakutat, remote, with more bears than people.

I would also argue that most of the empty states have the lowest levels of gun violence per capita....with states like Alaska, Wyoming, Idaho, the Dakotas, Montana, Nevada and Utah probably having among the lowest. I would guess that the opposite is also true, states with high population density have more violence; that is, New York, Texas, California, most of the east coast and Illinois.

These numbers bear out what I thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

What I find a little surprising is almost all of the states traditionally considered "Southern" are in the top half, even the ones with lower population density. Most of the western states, with wide open spaces, and low population, have lower rates. I would say that maybe gun violence is more dependent on population density and living in the south.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
Yes, long barrels are a hindrance in a house.Cutting the barrel short on a shotgun is not out of the ordinary. We do have laws about doing that though.

A 9mm/.38 is the smallest most people will recommend. A .22 will pass clean threw most houses an still kill someone else. As for useing a .22 to protect your self. A .22 will kill but usually will not stop. Someone that is shot with a .22 may very well kill you an die hours later. Mind you 3 shots with any gun will usually stop an kill anyone. Me, I carry a .410 shotgun pistol. Devastating up close but loses energy quickly.

Very few gun people dont have dogs. Alarms have there uses though.

I do not live alone but I am single with no kids. Who I live with expects me to be armed all the time as does my family that does not live here. Reminders are given to me often.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
Actually, "assault" means its a black gun when the news uses the term.

The AR15 "so called assault" weapon is a standard .223 chambered gun. It looks just like the M16.(Military 16) The M16 can cut a tree in half just by pulling the trigger once. The AR15 goes bang one time for every trigger pull.


Then theres the news an there thing with the word "AK47"