Coloring on Modern Games - Hmmmm????Help

[Pyncheon guy]

Lemon Blue crossed to Birchen will give you the same pattern (crow-winged) birds...but I doubt that the color(s) will be showable.... A lemon blue can be crossed with a Brown Red and get nice results...but I would never cross it with a Black Breasted red....different color than the Brown red...(pattern and color).

 

[Pyncheon guy]

Blacks should be crossed with other blacks, blues, splash, or self blues(lavenders)....

 

[tiffanyh]

okay. that actually makes sense. thanks so much.

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
It will take years of study to understand the genetics behind chicken primary color pattens and secondary color patterns. I have been studying publications and experimentally crossing birds for over 10 years.

Go to the university library and get a copy of R.D. Crawfords "Poultry Breeding and Genetics". Copy the pages on the E locus alleles and study the E locus alleles until you have a good grasp of what allele causes what primary color pattern in male and female birds. Next, study how the other genes restrictors, diluters etc. in a bird effect the primary color pattern. Once you have a grasp of the previously mentioned, move on to how genes interact to form secondary color patterns.


Try this site also: http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page0.html I disagree with some of the information on this site but 99% of the information is supported by research.


The biggest problem with chicken genetics is that it is very complicated. Most genes are not dominant but incompletely dominant. Some genes effect females one way and males another way. Males can have a completely different plumage color than females and still contain the same genes. I can go on and on.

One example is a white chicken- seems very simple- not so.

You can get white chickens due to the dominant white gene, the recessive white gene or a combination of specific genes.

Dominant white is not a good gene to use for making a white chicken so the breeder makes sure the birds also carry the silver gene, the barring gene and any genes that would make a bird black. Yes I said black- you must have a black bird that is changed to white by the dominant white gene. This gene covers black very well but does not cover red. You can have a red bird with a white tail that is dominant white. You would think the bird should be white but not so because of the way the dominant white gene works on the cell level.

Recessive white is actually a very good gene to use in making a bird white. The dominant white gene works differently on the cell level than dominant white so it will stop all color from being produced, well- most of the time. Nothing is 100% when you work with chickens.

You can also make an almost white bird using the wheaten gene, the columbian gene and the dark brown gene. I am currently working on a white bird that is not dominant white or recessive white. There may be another gene involved in the new white bird that I have not been able to ID. I still have more work to do.

Tim

 

[tiffanyh]

Tim, thanks for taking the time to write. I appreciate your background and input. I will be contacting you in the future!!

If you need me to hatch some research over here, let me know! lol

I guess at this point it is a bit clearer in that:

1. birchen x birchen should give me birchen
2. lemon x lemon should give me lemon
3. black xblack shoould give me the black variety
4. any color x with same color should give you that color

So that fact the the breeder ( a high placing breeder of many years and a very very nice lady, very straight forward and made no attempt to mislead me) is saying that i will get a mix of colors by breeding my new birchens is because she has mixed the lines back whenever. But, as long as it has the characteristics of a birchen (or whatever color) then it can be shown as a birchen?

Does that seem slightly unethical??? That is not a sarcastic comment, but a true honest question. Is it unethical to call and show it as a birchen or pure when you know its lines are not pure??

 

[Pyncheon guy]

lemon blue x lemon blue will give you 50% lemon blues.....25% brown reds,.....and 25% splash lemon blues

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Birchen is the primary color pattern in the bird. As long as a bird meets the standard color etc., it is ok. The standards of many birds were determined before anybody knew anything about the genetics behind the phenotype expressed by the genotype. There is nothing in the standard about the genetic makeup.

I do not know what birds she used to breed and produce a birchin. I would guess that you may occasionally produce a restricted bird ( bird with a white breast) or a black bird. Beyond that- I do not think you will produce other varieties of birds. I do not comprehend any reason why a person would breed in birds with the wild type, brown or wheaten alleles.

If someone has a reason for breeding for heterozygous birchin/wildtype, birchin/wheaten, or birchin/brown birds, I would like to here the reasoning.

Tim

 

[tiffanyh]

lemon blue x lemon blue will give you 50% lemon blues.....25% brown reds,.....and 25% splash lemon blues

Just when I thought I had my brain wrapped around it!!

Is the lemon blue coloring dominated by another or created from/along side the lemon blues?

I dont mean to be super annoying. Sorry. Is there a good website you could suggest for an "overall view" of the coloring system?​

 

[Pyncheon guy]

lemon blue is a diluted brown red because of the "Blue" gene.....when the bird has a double dose or is "homozygous for the blue gene....the lemon blue becomes a Splash lemon blue.....the lemon areas stay the same and the blue areas become white-ish with specks of blue

 

[DaveK]

Quote:
This might be easier to understand if one forgets the lemon and just thinks of the blue base color. They work like any other blue as has been outlined here.

The showing of any fowl depends only on appearance. If sending a bird into another breeder's program then hopefully there is honesty regarding anything that needs to be known including color crosses in the background. I will admit that I am totally bamboozled by the idea of birchen carrying something else. Unless she thought you were breeding birchen to some of the other colors mentioned. But birchens are sort of at the bottom as far as genetics, meaning they are silver which isn't going to be carrying red. Crosses with brown reds can give brown reds carrying silver or modifiers but I am really missing the boat in being able to imagine what color could be carried by well colored birchens of any breed.