Columbian Maran Project

[Cjarvis]

Columbian over wheaton works real good for females you loose some covert lacing in the female for a generation or two but will come back I have done this with OEGB, You can also use Columbian over BB Red or Partridge females, I did that one with rosecomb. The males of both matings will have some black in their breast but very limited, the next generation is where you get a nice male but watch for black in the wing bar.

 

[Cjarvis]

Here is an example of a Columbian Male over Wheaton female., I will go take one of a Columbian over BB Red / Partridge later tomorrow.

 

[Cjarvis]

I should add what I have learned, It is much easier to breed a very well colored Columbian female when they are wheaton based as the backs stay much cleaner, for breeding males it is much easier to get the color right when they are partridge based and use very dirty backed females this helps with saddle striping in the males.

 

[3riverschick]

I think it was a stroke of brilliance for Lynnrae to use a Light Sussex to remake the Columbian Marans.
Basing it on eWh instead of eb ( which eb supposedly isn't in the Marans breed) allowed her to set the
plumage pattern without having to color balance the underfluff in order to get correct top color.
Marans are tough enough to breed without having the color balancing issues.
Best,
Karen
Waterford english Light Sussex
PA, USA

 

[ladycat]

Subscribing, hope this thread gets more active.

 

[ladycat]

I have a flock of Splash, Blue, Blue Copper, Black, and Black Coppers in a mixed pen. I've managed to hatch about half a dozen Columbians that came thru.

I got columbians when I crossed a Blue Tailed Buff Marans roo with a Silver Cuckoo Marans hen. This was most curious, so I've done a huge amount of googling, and asked questions at the MCCUSA forum (US Marans club). I think I have a pretty good handle on understanding how this happened.

To begin with, Columbian Marans are more properly called Ermines.

Coumbians are partridge based. They have a colored saddle and a gray undercolor.

Ermines are Wheaten based. They have a white saddle and white undercolor.

Genetically speaking, Ermine Marans are Columbian Silver Wheaten (eWh/eWh Co/Co S+/S+) and Black-tailed Buffs are Columbian Gold Wheaten (eWh/eWh Co/Co s+/s+)

To address your specific experience, Black Copper are genetically Brown-Red. Brown-Red can be partridge or wheaten based. Specifically, Black Copper Marans are wheaten based.

Black Coppers can and do throw Wheatens. Black-tailed Buffs (or in my case, Blue-tailed Buffs), often throw Wheaten.

Keep in mind, Ermine is Wheaten based, so if you have Wheaten based chickens, you have the potential for Ermine.

Ermine is silver factored. Silver Cuckoo is silver factored.

BT Buffs and Black Coppers are Gold Factored.

To get Ermine, you have to remove the gold (else you'll have BT Buff).

In my case, the Cuckoo hen carried the silver, and the BT Buff carried the gold. This is a sex link cross, and all my ermines from that mating were males.

In the case of your Ermines, I don't know which was the father and which was the mother, but you would have had to have a silver factored bird in the pen. Perhaps your splash, blue or black carry silver?

I have put one Ermine male back with his mother, and I have eggs in the incubator now. I'll put pullets from that mating with the other two males. Here's hoping I can get these going. They are beautiful birds, and the original hen lays a dark egg. *crossing fingers*

 

[pawtraitart]

I got columbians when I crossed a Blue Tailed Buff Marans roo with a Silver Cuckoo Marans hen. This was most curious, so I've done a huge amount of googling, and asked questions at the MCCUSA forum (US Marans club). I think I have a pretty good handle on understanding how this happened.

To begin with, Columbian Marans are more properly called Ermines.

Coumbians are partridge based. They have a colored saddle and a gray undercolor.

Ermines are Wheaten based. They have a white saddle and white undercolor.

Genetically speaking, Ermine Marans are Columbian Silver Wheaten (eWh/eWh Co/Co S+/S+) and Black-tailed Buffs are Columbian Gold Wheaten (eWh/eWh Co/Co s+/s+)

To address your specific experience, Black Copper are genetically Brown-Red. Brown-Red can be partridge or wheaten based. Specifically, Black Copper Marans are wheaten based.

Black Coppers can and do throw Wheatens. Black-tailed Buffs (or in my case, Blue-tailed Buffs), often throw Wheaten.

Keep in mind, Ermine is Wheaten based, so if you have Wheaten based chickens, you have the potential for Ermine.

Ermine is silver factored. Silver Cuckoo is silver factored.

BT Buffs and Black Coppers are Gold Factored.

To get Ermine, you have to remove the gold (else you'll have BT Buff).

In my case, the Cuckoo hen carried the silver, and the BT Buff carried the gold. This is a sex link cross, and all my ermines from that mating were males.

In the case of your Ermines, I don't know which was the father and which was the mother, but you would have had to have a silver factored bird in the pen. Perhaps your splash, blue or black carry silver?

I have put one Ermine male back with his mother, and I have eggs in the incubator now. I'll put pullets from that mating with the other two males. Here's hoping I can get these going. They are beautiful birds, and the original hen lays a dark egg. *crossing fingers*

The correct genome for the black tail buff is EWh/EWh S+/S+ Mh/Mh Di/Di w+/w+ Id/Id Pti1-L/Pti1-L. I thought at first that the columbian gene was involved, but now I see that they are a mahogany bird with the Di dilution gene instead. The problem with the wheaten based birds is that you can get birds that appear to be of one type or the other, but are actually mixed and won't breed true.

Columbian - eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co w+/w+ Id/Id Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Golden Salmon - e+/e+ S+/S+ Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Black Copper - ER/ER S+/S+ Ml/Ml Mh/Mh Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Wheaten - eWh/eWh S+/S+ Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Cuckoo - E/E S/S Ml/Ml B/B Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Black - E/E S/S Ml/Ml Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

 

[3riverschick]

The correct genome for the black tail buff is EWh/EWh S+/S+ Mh/Mh Di/Di w+/w+ Id/Id Pti1-L/Pti1-L. I thought at first that the columbian gene was involved, but now I see that they are a mahogany bird with the Di dilution gene instead. The problem with the wheaten based birds is that you can get birds that appear to be of one type or the other, but are actually mixed and won't breed true.

Columbian - eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co w+/w+ Id/Id Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Golden Salmon - e+/e+ S+/S+ Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Black Copper - ER/ER S+/S+ Ml/Ml Mh/Mh Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Wheaten - eWh/eWh S+/S+ Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Cuckoo - E/E S/S Ml/Ml B/B Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Black - E/E S/S Ml/Ml Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

Golden Salmon is s+/s+ (S/s-) Silver Salmon is S/S.
Best,
Karen

 

[pawtraitart]

Golden Salmon is s+/s+ (S/s-) Silver Salmon is S/S.
Best,
Karen

Sorry, used all caps and didn't key in the sex link identifier. Copied from Bev Davis's site.

 

[Winterwolfbane]

Ok, because I was requested to make an up-date.

I have Columbian Marans, going into the 9th generation. Probably the only serious Columbian Marans line in the US at this time? Started with a one time cross breeding of a Light Sussex to Wheaten and blue Wheaten Marans hens way back in 2008. Been following the silver (and blue) Columbian genes ever since and back bred to Marans now about 7 times. The flock has been split into two flocks. Columbian to Columbian. And back breeding again to the Cuckoo Marans. Columbian X Cuckoo flock.
Columbian is a dominate restrictor of black there fore if bred to cuckoo can sometimes get Columbian if the cuckoo carry it and the Cuckoo are EE and not ER birds. Usually you get sex-linked barred (cuckoo) males and black females. Then back breed the black females to the Columbian. 1 in 8 will be Columbian. This also cleans up the Columbian patterning. My mentor David Hancox instructed me here. He also said that any chicks hatched with any markings. As in a head stripe or body stripes was an indicator of a brown gene (eb). This is incorrect for Columbian Marans and Marans in general. But it can lay dormant and then suddenly show up. Because wheaten is dominate to it as well as Columbian. All chicks should hatch out solid white/yellow. The brown genes are also responsible, I have found for messing up the Columbian patterning (smutty, too much black) and causing grey under down. Seems to make the Columbian restrictor gene not work as well. I cull these and anything that maybe wheaten incompletes. I traced this brown gene down to being in the Sussex I used. But can't completely rule out other possibilities. All that matters is it be selected against. I now only have it show up rarely anymore.
Not completely satisfied with them, will continue to work on them. There are issues with inconsistent egg color within the two Columbian flocks. Ranging from 3's up to 6's, sometimes a rare 7. Despite only hatching my darkest eggs each generation. Still, it has improved much over the years. Hybridizing will do this in Marans. Only seen it in birds that have been cross bred with something else non-Marans. And learned this now could of taken place generations ago. Because my closed flocks of wheaten (Cottage Hill) and Cuckoo (Fugate/Fitch lines) lay all consistent colored eggs, mostly all 5's and 6's. I've had the cuckoo flock since 2000 and the wheaten since 2006.

I have been selling some eggs on Ebay , but due to demand. Probably only list them a couple more times this spring. They aren't perfect, but good enough to release to the public as starter birds to work the coloring with. They're over 98% Marans blooded at this point. The genes and the hard work is already done, they just need tweaked some more. Selling eggs form the Columbian X Columbian flock, their chicks will be two generations removed from the last back breeding to wheaten Marans.




Lynnrae