Commercial Poison (err... "Feed")

[BastyPutt]

This has nothing to do with discrediting someone’s expierience. No one here to my knowledge has denied that a flock stopped laying nor have I. Proposing the fact that the issue may be broader and not just because “the feed is poisoned” is not being ignorant. Blindly believing so is ignorant.

As it is the original poster was feeding his hens a low protein poor quality feed I’ve had issues with “Dumor.” That is more than likely the culprit in my own opinion, but they are not my birds, I don’t know what their living conditions are or any other variables that may have contributed, and so I can’t honestly say why his hens stopped laying other than by going off of the limited information shared by OP. Based on that limited information, the answer I suspect is that the hens were simply malnourished by an owner that decided to buy cheap feed and ignorantly blame the results on a mysterious agenda to stop people’s flocks from laying.

If we all sit around and ignore factual information or critical analysis in preference to our own “truths” wouldn’t that be ignorance? Everyone has their own “truth,” which “truth” is the right one?
How do we decide which is the correct “truth” without some actual testing, using science, and excercising unbiased reasoning? Maybe we should just ask the magic conch?

View attachment 3493924

Here is what I have concluded over the last few years.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I just need to live with it because a sensible debate, no longer exists. You can literally watch this thread deteriorate into what now resembles a clearly divided country. And the argument is going to be exactly the same as the biggest societal disagreement we have ever seen, in the C19 vaccine. There is not s chance I am going to start that here, simply making a comparison.

Somewhere along the line, we now get offended or upset if we don't agree, opposed to respecting another's opinion.

The OP posted a theory, and then their experience. There were a few general comments, then BAM - @nuthatched - a prominent user sought to discredit the OP's conclusion - we see them all the time, the "misinformation police". From that point in the thread, it self implodes. Shots begin to fire from all sides. And we've all played the role, publicly attempting to disprove an idea, maybe to help others, or maybe to shame the opinion because it upsets or contradicts you, who knows.

Here is the deal - who really cares what the OP thinks? By feeling a need to squash something we don't believe is true, we are discrediting the the fact that people can make their own educated decisions. Somewhere along the lines, we believe that people have entirely lost the ability to reason, and if someone utters something on a forum or social media site, that it is going to spread like an untrue wildfire of "misinformation".

Each and every person is entitled to an opinion, and to share that opinion, as long as it doesn't directly hurt another. If what we believe to be true is in fact so, then the truth can speak for and defend itself.

 

[LhickenChicken]

Lethargy is a symptom of so many things it’s impossible for me to say, but malnutrition also causes that. Thiamine deficiency as one example can cause a bird to be lethargic. Biotine deficiency as another example can cause fatigue and a poor appetite, and biotine is quickly lost as feed ages, so old seed can have low nutritional value.

Then they could have put old seed in the feed. Don't you think? I mean, the first conclusion people jump to, including me, is something is in the feed. I guess it doesn't always have to be that way.

 

[LhickenChicken]

Here is what I have concluded over the last few years.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I just need to live with it because a sensible debate, no longer exists. You can literally watch this thread deteriorate into what now resembles a clearly divided country. And the argument is going to be exactly the same as the biggest societal disagreement we have ever seen, in the C19 vaccine. There is not s chance I am going to start that here, simply making a comparison.

Somewhere along the line, we now get offended or upset if we don't agree, opposed to respecting another's opinion.

The OP posted a theory, and then their experience. There were a few general comments, then BAM - @nuthatched - a prominent user sought to discredit the OP's conclusion - we see them all the time, the "misinformation police". From that point in the thread, it self implodes. Shots begin to fire from all sides. And we've all played the role, publicly attempting to disprove an idea, maybe to help others, or maybe to shame the opinion because it upsets or contradicts you, who knows.

Here is the deal - who really cares what the OP thinks? By feeling a need to squash something we don't believe is true, we are discrediting the the fact that people can make their own educated decisions. Somewhere along the lines, we believe that people have entirely lost the ability to reason, and if someone utters something on a forum or social media site, that it is going to spread like an untrue wildfire of "misinformation".

Each and every person is entitled to an opinion, and to share that opinion, as long as it doesn't directly hurt another. If what we believe to be true is in fact so, then the truth can speak for and defend itself.

Exactly.

 

[Goosebaby]

Then they could have put old seed in the feed. Don't you think? I mean, the first conclusion people jump to, including me, is something is in the feed. I guess it doesn't always have to be that way.

Old seed or the feed itself is old.

 

[Goosebaby]

Here is what I have concluded over the last few years.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I just need to live with it because a sensible debate, no longer exists. You can literally watch this thread deteriorate into what now resembles a clearly divided country. And the argument is going to be exactly the same as the biggest societal disagreement we have ever seen, in the C19 vaccine. There is not s chance I am going to start that here, simply making a comparison.

Somewhere along the line, we now get offended or upset if we don't agree, opposed to respecting another's opinion.

The OP posted a theory, and then their experience. There were a few general comments, then BAM - @nuthatched - a prominent user sought to discredit the OP's conclusion - we see them all the time, the "misinformation police". From that point in the thread, it self implodes. Shots begin to fire from all sides. And we've all played the role, publicly attempting to disprove an idea, maybe to help others, or maybe to shame the opinion because it upsets or contradicts you, who knows.

Here is the deal - who really cares what the OP thinks? By feeling a need to squash something we don't believe is true, we are discrediting the the fact that people can make their own educated decisions. Somewhere along the lines, we believe that people have entirely lost the ability to reason, and if someone utters something on a forum or social media site, that it is going to spread like an untrue wildfire of "misinformation".

Each and every person is entitled to an opinion, and to share that opinion, as long as it doesn't directly hurt another. If what we believe to be true is in fact so, then the truth can speak for and defend itself.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, hence the wildly different opinions expressed here. As for wether anyone gets offended or upset over these opinions, only they would know that about themselves, anyone else can’t say wether they are or not, doing so is just projecting their opinion’s about how the other feels onto them.

People can make their own educated decisions, posting an opinion in a public forum is asking for the input of others, why else would they do it? I’m sure they can and will make their own decision, but if their opinion starts a discussion, and nuthatch chooses to express their own opinion on the subject as well as anyone else why should they be demonized for that? There are plenty of echo chambers on the internet to choose from if altering opinions aren’t wanted or respected. This place at least has the freedom where different opinions can be voiced, or maybe it isn’t anymore if people are going to get slapped with a label like “misinformation police,” and essentially told that their input doesn’t matter while allegedly claiming that “everyone is entitled to their own opinion.”
If that is the case you wouldn’t be slapping someone with a label like that as it is a manipulation to get other people not to respect or listen to another’s input, because they’re just “misinformation police” implying that they exist just to censor others, which is in fact what you just tried to do to them.

 

[fuzzi]

Here is what I have concluded over the last few years.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I just need to live with it because a sensible debate, no longer exists. You can literally watch this thread deteriorate into what now resembles a clearly divided country. And the argument is going to be exactly the same as the biggest societal disagreement we have ever seen, in the C19 vaccine. There is not s chance I am going to start that here, simply making a comparison.

Somewhere along the line, we now get offended or upset if we don't agree, opposed to respecting another's opinion.

The OP posted a theory, and then their experience. There were a few general comments, then BAM - @nuthatched - a prominent user sought to discredit the OP's conclusion - we see them all the time, the "misinformation police". From that point in the thread, it self implodes. Shots begin to fire from all sides. And we've all played the role, publicly attempting to disprove an idea, maybe to help others, or maybe to shame the opinion because it upsets or contradicts you, who knows.

Here is the deal - who really cares what the OP thinks? By feeling a need to squash something we don't believe is true, we are discrediting the the fact that people can make their own educated decisions. Somewhere along the lines, we believe that people have entirely lost the ability to reason, and if someone utters something on a forum or social media site, that it is going to spread like an untrue wildfire of "misinformation".

Each and every person is entitled to an opinion, and to share that opinion, as long as it doesn't directly hurt another. If what we believe to be true is in fact so, then the truth can speak for and defend itself.

 

[BastyPutt]

That "always superior" is nonsense. Nothing is ALWAYS better.

If I make cookies, I know exactly what is in there. But that does not mean my cookies are a healthy complete diet for a person or a chicken. And if there is a shortage of flour or sugar, I cannot make my cookies either.

Likewise with chicken foods, someone can "know exactly what is in there" but make choices that do not provide what a chicken needs. And if there is a shortage of ingredients, they cannot make their chicken food either.

That "always superior" is nonsense. Nothing is ALWAYS better.

If I make cookies, I know exactly what is in there. But that does not mean my cookies are a healthy complete diet for a person or a chicken. And if there is a shortage of flour or sugar, I cannot make my cookies either.

Likewise with chicken foods, someone can "know exactly what is in there" but make choices that do not provide what a chicken needs. And if there is a shortage of ingredients, they cannot make their chicken food either.

Count me in if you find a cookie that is a complete diet for a person

You're right, you could always run into shortages regardless. But, you can also produce and grow your own ingredients. In your cookie example, you can mill your own flour and raise bees for honey as a sweetener - making you a sustainable contributor to society, opposed to being only a consumer, pulling something off a shelf and exchanging it for money.

There is no sensible argument to be made, that if you are able to mix your own feed, that is nutritionally balanced for your chickens, it is always superior for the health of you and your flock. EVERY non organic (and even some of those), commercially available feed - especially the one in question on this thread - have non nutritional filler added or a list of ingredients that we cant pronounce.

All I was doing here was affirming the OP's decision and their success in restoring their flock - as well as sharing my opinion on the benefits of their feed. I am entitled to my opinion, as you are to calling it nonsense.

 

[BastyPutt]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, hence the wildly different opinions expressed here. As for wether anyone gets offended or upset over these opinions, only they would know that about themselves, anyone else can’t say wether they are or not, doing so is just projecting their opinion’s about how the other feels onto them.

People can make their own educated decisions, posting an opinion in a public forum is asking for the input of others, why else would they do it? I’m sure they can and will make their own decision, but if their opinion starts a discussion, and nuthatch chooses to express their own opinion on the subject as well as anyone else why should they be demonized for that? There are plenty of echo chambers on the internet to choose from if altering opinions aren’t wanted or respected. This place at least has the freedom where different opinions can be voiced, or maybe it isn’t anymore if people are going to get slapped with a label like “misinformation police,” and essentially told that their input doesn’t matter while allegedly claiming that “everyone is entitled to their own opinion.”
If that is the case you wouldn’t be slapping someone with a label like that as it is a manipulation to get other people not to respect or listen to another’s input, because they’re just “misinformation police” implying that they exist just to censor others, which is in fact what you just tried to do to them.

I believe you confusing an opinion with a statement of fact.

 

[Goosebaby]

I believe you confusing an opinion with a statement of fact.

It depends on how you choose to perceive either I suppose.

 

[BastyPutt]

It depends on how you choose to perceive either I suppose.

True.

Thank you for the engagement - it is nice, even if it gets a bit testy to not have someone just walk away, and I apologize if I was out of line at times.

I think ultimately, the last few years have made everyone first defend whatever it is they believe, opposed to embracing and really considering something else. I know this is certainly true for me.

For me, my family and flock - mixing my own feed is best We will leave it at that.

Have a good day, and ill see you around.