Commercial Poison (err... "Feed")

[Goosebaby]

True.

Thank you for the engagement - it is nice, even if it gets a bit testy to not have someone just walk away, and I apologize if I was out of line at times.

I think ultimately, the last few years have made everyone first defend whatever it is they believe, opposed to embracing and really considering something else. I know this is certainly true for me.

For me, my family and flock - mixing my own feed is best We will leave it at that.

Have a good day, and ill see you around.

I actually supplement my feed with what I grow in my garden, relying solely on one source of nutrition is never a good idea in my opinion, sometimes especially in spring feed from the store can be old or a middleman didn’t store it properly “opened some moldy bags a few times.” Varied diets are healthy.

 

[NatJ]

There is no sensible argument to be made, that if you are able to mix your own feed, that is nutritionally balanced for your chickens, it is always superior for the health of you and your flock.

When you put it that specifically, I have no disagreement.

But some people are not able to mix such a feed (lack of knowledge or lack of ingredients.)

And even for those who can do it, sometimes the home-mixed feed will cost more than purchased feed. That is a bigger issue for some people than others.

Which is why I have issues with anyone saying that home-mixed feed is "always" superior. It is only superior when certain conditions are met, and many people are unable to meet those conditions. (If someone says that purchased feed is "always" superior, I have issues with that too. At a bare minimum, it needs to be fresh, dry, and not moldy, and purchased feed sometimes fails even that bare minimum. The ingredients and recipe are, as you pointed out, another possible issue.)

 

[BastyPutt]

When you put it that specifically, I have no disagreement.

But some people are not able to mix such a feed (lack of knowledge or lack of ingredients.)

And even for those who can do it, sometimes the home-mixed feed will cost more than purchased feed. That is a bigger issue for some people than others.

Which is why I have issues with anyone saying that home-mixed feed is "always" superior. It is only superior when certain conditions are met, and many people are unable to meet those conditions. (If someone says that purchased feed is "always" superior, I have issues with that too. At a bare minimum, it needs to be fresh, dry, and not moldy, and purchased feed sometimes fails even that bare minimum. The ingredients and recipe are, as you pointed out, another possible issue.)

Yes I'd say this is true - I'm this context, it isnt ALWAYS better. I suppose everything in some sense, has a downfall. Furthermore, raising your own chickens while feeding bagged food is more beneficial than being discouraged and not raising them at all. Middle ground reached.

I appreciate you and your input. I will certainly ponder it.

Have a great day.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

True.

Thank you for the engagement - it is nice, even if it gets a bit testy to not have someone just walk away, and I apologize if I was out of line at times.

I think ultimately, the last few years have made everyone first defend whatever it is they believe, opposed to embracing and really considering something else. I know this is certainly true for me.

For me, my family and flock - mixing my own feed is best We will leave it at that.

Have a good day, and ill see you around.

Defending one's beliefs, even in the face of contrary facts, is very human. There is NOTHING new about it. For many, those beliefs comprise a substantal portion fo their worldview, the way in which they define themselves - and their defense can take on an almost religious zealotry.

For what its worth, I find the emphasis on "simple" (pronounceable) ingredients, generally few in number, and as close to "heritage" (whatever that word is supposed to mean) as misplaced. Overwhelmingly, I find those that mix their own feed to vastly overestimate its nutritional character, and only consider a couple of nutritional targets (assuming they consider anything more than crude protein and calcium). In thousands of posts, I've seen two "made at home" recipes that you can populate with average nutritional values from a reliable source and have it pump out what most would consider acceptable numbers. I've helped posters in unique circumstances develop two more, with the caveat that we were only looking at a handful of nutritional factors.

Even if you grow it yourself, unless you have it assayed, you can't know what the nutritional values of any particular crop are. At best, you can rely on broadly reported averages, accepting that what comes off your soil may be consistently substantially better, or substantially worse, across a host of nutritional metrics than the average. I.e, if your soil is low in selenium, your crops will be low in selenium, and your feed will then be low in selenium. Consistently. Otoh, if you plant a high protein wheat crop, or a low tannin pea crop, chances are good your crops will better the averages for those metrics.

Neither, unless you are in quite rare circumstances, can you grow it all yourself. There's no one magic plant ingredient that makes a complete chicken feed. Soils that are good for for raising more than one or two of the best crops for filling the majority of a feed are largely in the hands of commercial scale producers. Even if you can, you then need to be able to store it. How much do your chickens eat each month? How long is corn in season? Wheat? Soy? Where and how will you store those crops when they aren't in season, so you can keep them fresh, mold/mildew free, away from sunlight, and to keep their fats (with their fat soluable vitamins) from going rancid.

Modern efficiency is based on modern specialization. You can't compete on a cost basis, and absent unusual circumstances (a large farm with heavy equipment on good soil with good climate) its impractical to try and grow it all yourself.

Buying from Amazon, Polouse, Eden, Great Mill, Pleasant Hill and all the rest are fine (if expensive), but don't tell yourself this is your SHTF plan - because when that happens, you can expect quick shipping and ready availability to become a memory - as we just experienced.

Mills, on the other hand, do have crops assayed (at least the good ones), and do alter their mixes to provide a seasonally consistent product, adjusting for lower quality corn, or higher protein soy, or excess moisture in the wheat, or whatever, plus the multivitamin mix of course, to guarantee they at least hit various minimums. They do have the means to store whole grains in quantity for use through at least brief supply interuptions. You still have to choose a good product from a consistent mill of course - every mill is not the same, just as every chicken breeder is not the same, and every breed of chicken has its own character. But at least you have a label with some agreed to measurements.

Is that to say you should only, ever feed commercially bagged feed? No - though many peoples birds would be better off if their owners did just that. There is room in this big wide world for unique answers to unique circumstances. There's also room for educated risk taking - people like me who have done the research and feed a mix of high nutritional quality commercial feed together with free ranging in an intentionally planted polyculture. There's even room for people who have decide that unsupported, 100% free ranging is "good enough" in their climate without pretending its the best or only way.
"I only feed my birds ingredients I can pronounce that I mixed (and perhaps grew) myself, because it sounds good???" Your birds, your property, your choice. Says more about the limits of one's vocabulary than the depth of their nutritional understanding.

On the basis of nutritional comparison - which is all the bird's health really cares about:

"Best?" - almost certainly not.
"Consistent?" - definitely not.
"Complete?" - likely not.

How about?
"Comparably Priced?" - again no.
"Good for social approbation from those who likely know less about chickens than you do?" - Yeah, that. Its very good for making some feel good about themselves. But that really doesn't matter to the chickens.

Go ahead, put your recipe up. Maybe it will be the fifth reasonably successful "make at home" feed recipe I've seen posted on BYC in the past couple years.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and full discolosure, I tell people NOT to feed the way I do. The risks I choose to take, and the circumstances which make them effective for me, are not appropriate for most - and if they are looking to me for feed advice, they likely lack enough knowledge on the subject to be qualified to judge those risks for themselves.

At the end of the day, I don't know much about feeding chickens, just more than most.

See signature, below. "Finding Success by Learning from Failure".

 

[Max Coats]

I'm an educated, middle-class, engineer and family man, and am usually averse to conspiracy theories. HOWEVER… I’d recently come across multiple stories about how backyard chickens weren’t laying anymore, and I could relate. We have 3 girls about 3 years old and they all stopped laying last June (2022). The theory is that they’re (whoever “they” are) putting something in the feed. Vaccines for bird flu, vaccines for people… other more nefarious stuff? Poor quality ingredients for sake of profit? Who knows?

In addition to not laying, our chickens were lethargic, didn’t free-range when the door to the run was left open and just seemed “off”. The commercial “feed” was Dumor 16% Layer Formula from TSC.

So my wife and I mixed up a homemade feed of various corns, seeds, proteins, oyster shell & gravel, and the results are amazing! Within a week, they started to venture out of their run. Within 2 weeks they started “squatting and stomping” (a sure sign of fertility / productivity) which they also stopped doing completely.

3 weeks after purging their commercial “feed” we got our first egg in nearly EIGHT MONTHS! Now 4 weeks in, we’re getting eggs DAILY. I’m telling you all it’s as if they’ve woken up from an 8 month coma. More accurately “purging an 8 month poisoning”.

I am looking to mix my own feed so I know what my girls are eating. I did some research on Cal-Maine foods, purina, pilgrims pride, and tractor supply. “They” listed above, lowered the protein in layer feeds and started the egg shortage. Everybody’s hens stopped laying according to the research.

So, I want to find a good recipe to mix my own feed. Anyone willing to share your recipes? Please and thank you Maxine

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I am looking to mix my own feed so I know what my girls are eating. I did some research on Cal-Maine foods, purina, pilgrims pride, and tractor supply. “They” listed above, lowered the protein in layer feeds and started the egg shortage. Everybody’s hens stopped laying according to the research.

So, I want to find a good recipe to mix my own feed. Anyone willing to share your recipes? Please and thank you Maxine

Essentially without exception, make at home feeds are more expensive, and generally less nutritious than an off the shelf commercial variety. They are also far less certain, reliable, and predictable. Even if you "know" what you are putting in it, you DO NOT know what its nutritional values are. At best, you can assume an average value.

Want to improve what your birds are eating??? STOP FEEDING THEM LAYER FORMULATIONS!

One can hardly complain about poor nutritiona in good faith when one is deliberately buying the bare minimum nutritionally.

Also, "THEY" did NOT lower the protien. Crude Protein is still 16% minimum. In some cases, THEY altered the Amino Acid profile of that crude protein. Sometimes in beneficial ways, other times not.

I'm uncertain where you did your research, but I strongly recommend you find a new source.

Also, NIX the Scratch and the Treats.

 

[Max Coats]

Please go read all the threads on this instead of starting a new thread.
Not one person on social media ran tests on the feed, just their mouths.
Most chickens who have been "poisoned" are covid chickens who reached 2 and 3 years old, so they don't lay their second or third winter or they've reached henopause. chickens stop laying for late summer molting, go into winter break and wait for needed 14 hours of daylight to lay. It's been unusually dark and cold this winter everywhere.
If you want to mix your own feed, this is a great place to research that but what is the approximate analysison your mix? It's hard to come up with a decent feed, especially if your source the recipe off the internet.
Imo, 16% layer isn't good enough for your modern dual purpose hens.
Tldr, nothings wrong with the feed, just tinhat Tony and homesteader Barbie who never bothered to educate themselves on the reproductive process in chickens blaming the feed for normal breaks in the lay cycle and running their fool mouths.
It's been dark, too dark to activate the pinal gland that controls laying, your hens were likely molting and taking awhile to come out of it as 16% protein isn't enough period, let alone during the molt. Find a good 18-20% feed.
First & third posts in this thread:
" https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/feed-tests-more-results.1565804/
This thread, posts 6, 10, 12, 14, 18, 22
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...en-feed-craze-posted-testing-results.1564737/
Post 581 of this thread (I think this link will go straight to it; same feed as the one just above)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-to-be-analyzed.1561749/page-59#post-26554912
This is the thread comparing feed labels (spoiler: not much changed.) The labels are sprinkled throughout many pages, so this one isn't a quick read. I doubt your client will care about this one, as she probably assumes they changed the feed but not the label.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/current-internet-theory.1561604/
As regards your client wanting something "better" for her chickens, maybe suggest that she try a particular kind of other feed. For example, "maybe you should give your hens chick starter instead, with a separate dish of oyster shell. They wouldn't bother to add an anti-laying ingredient to chick starter"

Wow! That was a really strong reaction. If it was one farm or it was November or molt, it wouldn’t effect everyone. Changes in feed wouldn’t fix the problems even if it was September. It also wouldn’t have driven egg prices up to $8. A dozen. Guess I’ll find someplace else to get information from. Thx!

 

[Max Coats]

Essentially without exception, make at home feeds are more expensive, and generally less nutritious than an off the shelf commercial variety. They are also far less certain, reliable, and predictable. Even if you "know" what you are putting in it, you DO NOT know what its nutritional values are. At best, you can assume an average value.

Want to improve what your birds are eating??? STOP FEEDING THEM LAYER FORMULATIONS!

One can hardly complain about poor nutritiona in good faith when one is deliberately buying the bare minimum nutritionally.

Also, "THEY" did NOT lower the protien. Crude Protein is still 16% minimum. In some cases, THEY altered the Amino Acid profile of that crude protein. Sometimes in beneficial ways, other times not.

I'm uncertain where you did your research, but I strongly recommend you find a new source.

Also, NIX the Scratch and the Treats.

Oh don’t worry, I won’t be back here again. Thx

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Oh don’t worry, I won’t be back here again. Thx

Welcome.