completely confused about ventilation

[U_Stormcrow]

Your point about 100% free range is valid, but expecting the average backyard chicken keeper to be able to 100% free-range their chickens over a generous area and to never have to leave them in the coop after dawn or shut them up before dusk and to never experience weather conditions that make the chickens unwilling to leave their coop is considerably less realistic than advising them to build spacious housing.

Echoing

Apart from feral chickens in Hawaii (which, I would argue, aren't "kept"), its virtually impossible to have *productive* 100% free range birds. Yes, you might incidentally find eggs or get meat from a culling, but compared to even minimal husbandry, its simply not efficient. I say that as someone in one of the better growing zones (8a) of this country, with lots of acres for my birds. Can I significantly cut my feed costs??? ABSOLUTELY. Do I get good growth, good flavor, and find near 100% of the eggs they lay? also, Absolutely. Even then, if feed efficiency were my only concern, a CornishX can be raised to "market weight" faster and cheaper not free ranging the bird.

Predator losses - even in a protected run - are real, and true free ranging requires more space than one can practically net. Electric fences do not stop hawks.

I personally find it a bit odd that a poster might suggest both that 4 sq ft/bird is excessive coop space, 1 sq ft/bird ventilation is unneeded, and "free range" as a reasonable approach for the majority of back yard chicken keepers when so many threads here on BYC involve posters whose combined run/coop space is less than 8 sq ft/bird.

Most posters don't have 5+ acres of "back yard". Most posters have seasonal, or protracted, extreme weather events when free ranging isn't appropriate, as well. Many posters are unwilling to simply accept the reality of occasional predator losses. Those are times when that coop space is required - whether it be a hurricane, torrential rains, persistent and heavy snows, a derecho moving across the plains, or even shade against the pounding TX, AZ, NV, etc sun, or even the neighbor's cat/dog disrespecting your property rights...

If there were a "one size fits all" solution, the majority of us would be using it.

Instead, there are "thumb rules" accumulating the collective wisdom of general conditions demonstrated over time to provide consistent and satisfactory results. They are a good starting point from which individual alterations can be made in response to individual conditions.

 

[3KillerBs]

Those are times when that coop space is required - whether it be a hurricane, torrential rains, persistent and heavy snows, a derecho moving across the plains, or even shade against the pounding TX, AZ, NV, etc sun, or even the neighbor's cat/dog disrespecting your property rights...

Indeed.

I have left my pop door open during hurricanes, allowing my chickens to decided to go in or out, and while they came out briefly during the gaps between the rain bands, they stayed in the rest of the day.

The other day I knew that I had to leave the house before sunrise and would not return before my normal bedtime. I left the chickens closed up in the coop that day instead of trusting my electric net that much.

 

[Folly's place]

Yes on all counts!
My birds were locked in for ten days recently because of a hawk visitation. After two whole days back outside, yesterday I saw an ailing goldfinch at one of my wild bird feeders (none of which are available to the chickens) so the flock will be locked down again, for maybe three weeks this time. Our wild bird feeders, and the neighbors who also feed wild birds, are all now inside and unavailable. I'm hoping this bird hit our front window, not showing the gooey eyes or face that is a sure sign or MG, but still must be careful.
Winter is coming, and the chickens hate snow, so they will be unwilling to go out, sometimes for a week or longer.
They have a coop/ roofed run combination, safe and out of the rain and snow.
Mary

 

[Dhkoenig]

So...

(not my photo - but its so damned good I saved it) This is how under-eave ventilation is supposed to work. Its passive, it turns over air very effectively, it creates no breeze on the bars, and its weather sheltered.

Windows in coops exist primariliy because they satisfy HUMAN aesthetics. NOT because they are the optimum design for your chickens.

View attachment 2918613

A 5' x 6' coop is cramped for a dozen chickens, and will promote (note, not guarantee) misbehavior. It also offers limited roost opportunity and at that height, limited options in ensureing the nesting boxes are below the level of the roosting bars (to discourage roosting in the nests). Otoh, it has 22 linear feet of perimeter - meaning a mere 7" slot around the coop provides at least 12' sq ft of 24/7/365 free ventilation without a single window. Not that that's optimum design - its not - but it is a possibility.

From my goat house / second chicken shelter
View attachment 2918634

Thanks! It took me a bit to figure that out LOL but I think I get it! I have 7 chickens not 12 so that should be great!

 

[Dhkoenig]

So...

(not my photo - but its so damned good I saved it) This is how under-eave ventilation is supposed to work. Its passive, it turns over air very effectively, it creates no breeze on the bars, and its weather sheltered.

Windows in coops exist primariliy because they satisfy HUMAN aesthetics. NOT because they are the optimum design for your chickens.

View attachment 2918613

A 5' x 6' coop is cramped for a dozen chickens, and will promote (note, not guarantee) misbehavior. It also offers limited roost opportunity and at that height, limited options in ensureing the nesting boxes are below the level of the roosting bars (to discourage roosting in the nests). Otoh, it has 22 linear feet of perimeter - meaning a mere 7" slot around the coop provides at least 12' sq ft of 24/7/365 free ventilation without a single window. Not that that's optimum design - its not - but it is a possibility.

From my goat house / second chicken shelter
View attachment 2918634

thanks - this is very useful! I have 7 chickens, not 12 so this should be perfect

 

[3KillerBs]

I have 7 chickens, not 12 so this should be perfect

But do those coop measurements include the nests or not? And do you have food/water taking up space inside?

Also, do you have a roofed run area where the chickens can go outside regardless of pouring rain or snow?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Final thought before I step off - something I say a lot, and not just about chickens.

"Abundance is a Social Lubricant".

If you can afford to do it, offer more. More space in the coop. More space in the run. More feed stations. More water stations. More clutter for enrichment/entertainment. More options.

All of those things will tend to reduce frequency and severity of stress, conflict, and injury when disagreements inevitably arise. Ultimately making your job as a keeper of chickens easier, and a failure of any component of your chicken keeping system less catastrophic.

 

[Silexian]

Most of my small coops are 4ft. X 8ft. X 7ft. Tall. They have three vents in each soffit, a full length vent and a vent in each gable end. You do not have to disfigure your coop to get enough ventilation.

 

[3KillerBs]

Final thought before I step off - something I say a lot, and not just about chickens.

"Abundance is a Social Lubricant".

If you can afford to do it, offer more. More space in the coop. More space in the run. More feed stations. More water stations. More clutter for enrichment/entertainment. More options.

All of those things will tend to reduce frequency and severity of stress, conflict, and injury when disagreements inevitably arise. Ultimately making your job as a keeper of chickens easier, and a failure of any component of your chicken keeping system less catastrophic.

Indeed. I found many times this past year that having over-sized facilities made potential problems fade away and allowed me to take advantage of unexpected opportunities.

Most of my small coops are 4ft. X 8ft. X 7ft. Tall. They have three vents in each soffit, a full length vent and a vent in each gable end. You do not have to disfigure your coop to get enough ventilation.

While height is irrelevant to the number of chickens that can be kept in a coop -- because chickens don't stack for storage -- that 7-foot height is so very much BETTER than a short coop because it gives you the ability to put in that great ventilation up high where it belongs.

 

[Shadrach]

Those "Amish" style coops are much better than the majority of coops you see, but they are usually short on ventilation, have the ventilation in the wrong place, and the plans misrepresent how many chickens actually fit appropriately as badly as the prefabs do.



Do those dimensions include the nests? If yes, you don't have a 5x6, 30 square foot, 7-hen, coop, you have a 4x6, 6-hen coop. That little difference may or may not make a difference, but it's important to know -- especially if the food and water is taking up space in the coop instead of being out in the run.



Having a general guideline is NOT nonsense. It's an important data point from which the chicken-keeper can use local knowledge and observed conditions to adapt the coop to his specific needs -- the goal (for those not in the most severe of sub-arctic conditions), being to equalize the temperature and humidity inside and outside the coop.

For example, in my climate a single square foot per bird is only adequate summer ventilation in the coop with the Monitor Roof and then only if the coop is located in the shade. I discovered this spring that I need at least double or triple that recommended minimum to keep an unshaded coop with a flat roof under 100F on days over 90F.

There's no substitute for actually measuring conditions, but the guidelines are a useful starting point.



What's "unrealistic" about providing a flock with adequate housing? I submit that if a person can't afford to give their chickens adequate space -- either on account of building costs or lack of available space on the property -- they need to rethink their plan for keeping chickens.

Your point about 100% free range is valid, but expecting the average backyard chicken keeper to be able to 100% free-range their chickens over a generous area and to never have to leave them in the coop after dawn or shut them up before dusk and to never experience weather conditions that make the chickens unwilling to leave their coop is considerably less realistic than advising them to build spacious housing.

Of course the Usual Guidelines are *guidelines*, not hard-and-fast rules. @Ridgerunner's excellent article on the subject should be mandatory reading for all new chicken keepers: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-much-room-do-chickens-need.66180/

However, though I admit that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", in years of reading these forums (even when I was not actively keeping chickens), I am convinced that the vast majority of health, behavioral, and sanitation problems that people seek help for here are due to over-crowding and/or inadequate ventilation.

There is nothing that is made worse by ensuring plenty of fresh air and elbow room.

Well, unfortunately I don't agree with you, or should I write I don't really understand why you've tagged me and then made my point for me.
As you point out, in your climate you've found that there are other conditions that make the one square foot of ventilation per chicken inadequate.
Having one square foot of ventilation per chicken in the climate I'm currently living in would result in rather uncomfortable chickens especially in the winter.
I did mention that air flow is what matters. You could if one wished practically seal a coop and provide adequate air flow by using intake and extractor fans as many of the large chicken barns do.
And no, the point of ventialtion is not to equalize the humidity and temperature inside the coop to that outside the coop.

Nonsense; of no importance, or usefullness, might be an instructive definition here.
So yes it's an often quoted guidline that rarely makes a lot of sense in the real world.

About space.
I don't think I have ever had a coop that provided four square foot of floor area per chicken. On the other hand I had chickens living to 12 and 13 years old and in general I would be willing to bet that disregarding injuries out side the coop I had extremely heathy chickens.

As you write, there is no substitute for actuallly measuring conditions.

I submit that if a person can't afford to give their chickens adequate space -- either on account of building costs or lack of available space on the property -- they need to rethink their plan for keeping chickens.

I completely agree and this brings me to the point that if you can't provide enough space, and environmental conditions suitable for the chickens then perhaps it would be best not to keep chickens. I particularly like your point about the chickens not wanting to leave the coop.
To the best of my knowledge there is not a chicken in existance that would swap the ten feet per chicken in the run (yet another "guidline") for an acre of land.