Composting chicken run

[aart]

I buy milk in glass bottles now,

Where the heck do you find those?!

 

[RUNuts]

Where the heck do you find those?!

Schwann's still delivers to your door, but very expensive.

I read or heard of a study that showed the single use plastic was cheaper to deliver goods. Collecting, washing and sanitizing glass bottles creates water pollution (? my memory is strained here). I'm pretty sure that plastic disposal wasn't part of the article. But that has been a couple of decades ago. (someone is getting old)

Be interesting to see the cost of plastic disposal added to that thesis. It certainly has made a mountain.

BTW - the 5 gallon reusable water bottles make great chicken waterers. I keep getting more from the dump. People throw the 5 gallon bottles away.

 

[Sequel]

Where the heck do you find those?!

There are two fairly local dairies that use them. One is organic the other isn’t but is Kosher, has Jersey cows and doesn’t homogenize. I buy the Jersey milk.

 

[Red-Stars-in-RI]

Not just the water...glass is also a lot heavier so lots of fossil fuel used up delivering and collecting.

Still, to your point, a full and accurate account of the environmental impact would be nice!

 

[paintedChix]

I admit I hadn't thought about running the ends of the CP down along the fence wall for several squares. I probably would have gone for 1 square down. I see yours are 4 squares down. I am understanding that you think you need to raise it to less squares to make it more bowed, therefore stronger against snow load. Am I right so far? If so my question, if you have a number in mind, is how many squares do you think would improve your set up?

I was going to try raising it one on each side or even one on the "flatter" looking side & leaving it. Not using a level or square, just eyeballing. But pretty sure, even for here, that this is currently too flat. Also, it explains why (ROFLOL, right now) it was so hard to put it against the top bar when Skye and I were holding it. Her husband, Justin, never backed off to look at it and I didn't think to tell him we needed to... We were just trying to beat the remnants of the tropical storm (which we didn't get that much rain anyway, but... we didn't know that at the time).

 

[Cryss]

I was going to try raising it one on each side or even one on the "flatter" looking side & leaving it. Not using a level or square, just eyeballing. But pretty sure, even for here, that this is currently too flat. Also, it explains why (ROFLOL, right now) it was so hard to put it against the top bar when Skye and I were holding it. Her husband, Justin, never backed off to look at it and I didn't think to tell him we needed to... We were just trying to beat the remnants of the tropical storm (which we didn't get that much rain anyway, but... we didn't know that at the time).

ROTFLOL for real!
Hmmm. I don't understand physics so I'm confused. (No surprise there.) So if it was difficult to bend does that mean it is stronger when flatter? Or is a tall bend stronger?

 

[paintedChix]

But it's usually gone in less than 24 hours, correct?
Where in NC are you?
..and did that shallow 'arc' buckle under the snow you did get?

I would recommend not more than an 8' span at bottom of arc for a 16' panel to hold up snow....unless you plan to support panel with 'posts', 2x2's would suffice.

Aart - HAHAHA.... Not always, because the snow events here, the last several years, have started with freezing rain and the ice has stayed longer than 24 hours. It's not so fun. And with all the pics I've taken over the years, I've never taken any of the chicken coops or sheds in snow/ice...

Where am I? Cameron, NC. The sandhills. About 2 - 1/2 hours from the coast. Just north of Ft Bragg/Fayetteville (actually just off of the Sicily drop zone - as a crow flies. I look up when doing chickie & pony chores and often see the "bellies of the beasts" as our soldiers get ready for another drop out of the C-130s - enjoy watching some of the chopper runs, too, though haven't seen as many this year), sandwiched between Spring Lake, Southern Pines & Sanford. It's only 3 miles (ish) from an entrance to Ft Bragg. Once on the road, turning right goes to either Southern Pines or Raeford & turning left will take you to a back gate that is still manned (I no longer have access - I "ETS'd" after 5 yrs active; 1 yr active reserves <Desert Shield/Desert Storm> & Larry took a bonus out package at 15 + yrs - both many years ago now).

The weather has definitely changed or rather seems to go in cycles, though we have had some different "doozies" when it comes to the weather recently. Recently set some records for cold...

**********

I agree with the statement about 8' being a better base for the 16' long CP. I have done wider - in different applications - that have done well here for us (CP & pallet "sheds" in the album I linked previously). None of those were actually meant to be permanent - it has been a major surprise that they have held up so long and so well.

The chain link dog pen is different but after having issues with the roof that you can get with/for the pen, we too had CP on hand and used that as it was faster/easier at the time. One of the hurricanes two years ago (Michael, I think), actually broke several of the fasteners used for the roof attachments. CP was just so much easier to go with than trying to replace and line up the attachments. If I was going to use that type of roof again, I'd get the tools to drill holes thru the material and bolt it into place. But I don't do well with drilling thru anything material wise and aluminum can be difficult at best to drill straight through. I can strap, tie, braid and knot with the best of them though! I do agree that I have to make the hoop/curve steeper - when I took & posted the pics, I stated that we would be changing that. Bleh - only so many hours in the day, still working more than 40 hrs/week & still watering garden/trees along w/ pony, rabbit & chicken chores. Supposed to make cornbread tonight, may just go to bed now and get up a little earlier tomorrow morning to make it right before going to work.

*****

We have a separate compost pile that is set up for "other things" - I will be closing it in December (starting a new one) and will introduce worms to it next summer to speed it along. The "other things" include dog & cat waste (use either chic feed or corn cob litter), feminine products, tissue, paper towels, meats, dairy, bones, some of the chickens that have been nailed by predators but not taken, cooking grease, really old/nasty penicillin experiments etc. I haven not yet had a completely finished compost from this yet, but can tell you that trees growing near that compost bin are growing extremely well, have no disease and are "happy" (don't know how else to describe it). Due to what is in this particular compost, it will be composted for a full year & if I have doubts about it, can go longer. It's not being moved or turned - it's just sitting... Don't plan on using it where we have veggies in the ground but around shrubs and fruit trees in the future or even out in our pastures (changing them slowly from straight sand to better soil). We may roll it over into another round when it's "ready" - we shall see. I do know that I seem to get the pile to a certain size and then it must hit that sweet spot because then the pile will suddenly shrink in size. Not ready to dig in it though... This bin area is actually just off of our own leach field for the septic tank (I don't think our family will ever go to a straight composting toilet - though I wouldn't mind) and we haven't experienced any problems with leaching, lots of bugs or foul smells. When we take out stuff to dump, it then gets covered in pine straw, leaves, some forest floor dirt/leaf mold, straw and shredded paper. Our handful of free range chickens occasionally seem to find it but again, there don't appear to be any problems. Currently we have 11 free range bantam mix chickens that range the back/side and front yard... We have had times when we've had only 1 or 2 - this many is from the hen that raised 4 batches of chicks this year. When we are ready to use this compost, it will need to be sifted - to remove any uncomposted materials (large branches, bones, pine cones, plastics). Plastics would then be thrown out while the others will be returned to the new, on-going compost. This is completely separate from what I've done in the actual 8x8' chicken pen/coops and runs.

Then hen with the chicks in my avatar are sitting on pony manure that hadn't been dumped into the compost pile yet at our previous property. It made for a warm place for the eggs to incubate, LOL

 

[paintedChix]

ROTFLOL for real!
Hmmm. I don't understand physics so I'm confused. (No surprise there.) So if it was difficult to bend does that mean it is stronger when flatter? Or is a tall bend stronger?

Not difficult to bend at all... Difficult to "stretch" to hold it to the bars for attachment. The fact that it is rather flat explains why. Would/should be easier when we move it up a row of squares - more easily spread out/attached. Does that make more sense?

YES, taller, with more bend, is stronger. BUT you want to have something coming down the sides to brace it (? - OK I'm sorry, I'm terrible at the technical, mechanical, scientific terms. I still use "thingy" and "whatchamacall-its" and "round-toits" - terrible for teaching this).

If I was to do this on the ground, it would be braced inside of a square frame (for a coop or green house that can be moved) & with framing for the back and front to include at least one door. That framing can be done in such a way as to better support the top of the arch. OR you can sink Tposts into the ground & have the CP braced against that - depending on the size/height of the t-posts, you are talking several feet of support/bracing. I think that almost all of the structures I've done have been right around 8' wide - even when not measured - as that seems to be the easiest size that clears my own 5'6" height w/ about 6" to spare and appears to be the most structurally sound (um... I think I guess? I didn't know that each was about 8' wide until I went back later and checked).

I know that this shed is 8' deep x 12' wide (the pallets are 48"x48") and the panels don't have quite the steep arch but they are attached well to the pallets and also to a couple of t-posts behind the shed (the back "corners"). I don't know how well the shed would withstand the weather completely in the open. It's a lot more protected where I chose to put it up than we ever realized. I will have to count how many squares I have extending below the top of the pallets, as I don't remember.



Edited to add - Looks like Aart isn't the only tech buff that understands algebraic calculations... There are definite mathematical equations that will give you the height/length/width to get the best structural strength for an arch. Then there is just using what you have on hand.

 

[Cryss]

Not difficult to bend at all... Difficult to "stretch" to hold it to the bars for attachment. The fact that it is rather flat explains why. Would/should be easier when we move it up a row of squares - more easily spread out/attached. Does that make more sense?

YES, taller, with more bend, is stronger. BUT you want to have something coming down the sides to brace it (? - OK I'm sorry, I'm terrible at the technical, mechanical, scientific terms. I still use "thingy" and "whatchamacall-its" and "round-toits" - terrible for teaching this).

If I was to do this on the ground, it would be braced inside of a square frame (for a coop or green house that can be moved) & with framing for the back and front to include at least one door. That framing can be done in such a way as to better support the top of the arch. OR you can sink Tposts into the ground & have the CP braced against that - depending on the size/height of the t-posts, you are talking several feet of support/bracing. I think that almost all of the structures I've done have been right around 8' wide - even when not measured - as that seems to be the easiest size that clears my own 5'6" height w/ about 6" to spare and appears to be the most structurally sound (um... I think I guess? I didn't know that each was about 8' wide until I went back later and checked).

I know that this shed is 8' deep x 12' wide (the pallets are 48"x48") and the panels don't have quite the steep arch but they are attached well to the pallets and also to a couple of t-posts behind the shed (the back "corners"). I don't know how well the shed would withstand the weather completely in the open. It's a lot more protected where I chose to put it up than we ever realized. I will have to count how many squares I have extending below the top of the pallets, as I don't remember.

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Thanks again. You've been very helpful.

 

[paintedChix]

BTW - the 5 gallon reusable water bottles make great chicken waterers. I keep getting more from the dump. People throw the 5 gallon bottles away.

I wish we could get things out of our dump. there are signs posted all over that say "...not allowed..." and plenty of folk who sometimes always seem to care/worry about it when I show up and show an interest or move away from where I'm dumping at...