Composting & Granulated Fertilizer Question

[Gibguy]

We now have had (3) Chickens at our household for just a little over a year In the morning we open the chicken tractor & allow them to free roam in our backyard. In the evening they return & they are penned up.

All is well, as they appear to be natural composting machines complimenting our yard & the arrangement that we have for composting.

COMPOSTING

Over the years I have regularly composted bags of Oak Leaves & some mowed grass clipping by all my surrounding neighbors. I would estimated that I easily collect 50 to 75 bags of leaves and compost them in a homebuilt composting box 4 feet wide x 6 feet deep by 4 feet height.

In the past I have layered using the following:

 Oak Leaves
 Granulated Fertilizer (about a cup mixed into the dry leaves) (Your typical 50 pound bag Lawn/Garden from Home Depot)
 Cardboard boxes or newspaper (to retain moisture)
 Green Clippings or Leaves (if I have them)
 Fresh Compost
 Repeating the Process

In addition I have a smaller plastic compost box 3 feet wide x 3 feet deep by 4 feet height for kitchen stuff that I move on a linear path about 30 feet. This 30 foot path would in addition receive ashes from the fireplace & outdoor chimenea plus a weekly cup of Granulated Fertilizer.

Since acquiring the Chickens I have stopped using the Granulated Fertilizer as I am concerned that the concentration of the Granules would harm them.

The (3) Chickens really do enjoy the scratching in the above area as there is an abundance of earthworms & other insects for them to consume.

QUESTION: Do I need to worry about the Chickens ingesting the Granulated Fertilizer as often times it has not completely dissolved?

That’s it for now.

Gibguy

 

[donrae]

Are you talking about something similar to Miracle Grow? I do know that is non toxic to humans.....one memorable moment of my nursing career. The husband of a long term care patient brought in a bottle of liquid Miracle Grow, thinking it was lemon juice somehow and liberally sprinkled it on her fish....this happened for a good week before the staff caught it...and that home served a lot of fish....as the nurse on duty I got to call poison control and have a nice chat. They told me the fertilizers were all non toxic to humans, apparently lots of toddlers think it's the snack of choice. I'd think it's fine for the chickens, they'll probably leave it alone. My thought is if it were toxic to chickens, you'd probably have a yard full of dead wild birds first.

 

[Gibguy]

Hello Donrae

The fertilizer I typically use is the following from Home Depot:

Vigoro
Lawn Fertilizer 5,000 sq. ft.
N-P-K ratio 29-0-4
44.4 Lb. Bag

I have also purchased bags with a more even distribution, which I think would be 14-14-14.

I normally purchase (1) bag and then over a period of time apply a (1) cup to my compost on a weekly basis & water as well.

All fertilizer labels have three bold numbers. The first number is the amount of nitrogen (N), the second number is the amount of phosphate (P2O5) and the third number is the amount of potash (K2O). These three numbers represent the primary nutrients (nitrogen(N) - phosphorus(P) - potassium(K)).

My primary concern in this posting is the chickens will consume the granules that have not dissolved as they free roam through the compost pile.

I am not completely in agreement with your thoughts is if it were toxic to chickens, you'd probably have a yard full of dead wild birds first for the following reasons:

 Those bird are primarily free flying through the yard with any source of food from my yard would be in less concentrated and primarily natural seeds or insects

 If it was Toxic those birds would be spread out over the neighborhood in the zone that they primarily fly in.

So I am still looking for an answer.

That’s it for now.

Gibguy

 

[Den in Penn]

The ammonia nitrate which makes up the bulk of that fertilizer, is a component of their droppings. So they are exposed to it all the time. They couldn't easily take in enough potash to cause a problem, like many other things that are in the environment. So just mix in the fertilizer and water the pile like you usually do. I would be concerned if there were additives, like crabgrass preventer in it.

 

[RonP]

A quick search found this info:

With proper common sense use it is harmless.

Often these products are described as harmful by the organic gardening community and often the comments are more emotionally laden than factual. Provided you apply as above and water in well, you can resume normal activities immediately. I still don't recommend that the children eat the grass or put dirt in their mouths, but I don't recommend that on regular basis either.

Organic fertilizers can be just as harmful as synthetic fertilizers if eaten or not handled properly. The nutrients inside synthetic fertilizer pellets are produced by a chemical process in factories (as opposed to being produced by microbes in the soil eating the organic fertilizer and releasing the nutrients; which is how organic fertilizers work). This has also given synthetic (man-made) fertilizers the nick-name "chemical fertilizers". Some people misunderstand this to think that adding Vigoro/Scotts etc to their lawn is like pouring hazardous waste with toxic residues on the ground. This is NOT the case (although many organic lawn care sites have no problems "suggesting" this).


Under no circumstances should the products be eaten and I always recommend using gloves when handling because the materials are salts (I always wear gloves when handling rock salt in winter, too).

If you apply when rain is anticipated, you should be fine.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

..... Often these products are described as harmful by the organic gardening community and often the comments are more emotionally laden than factual...

Organic fertilizers can be just as harmful as synthetic fertilizers if eaten or not handled properly.....

The nutrients inside synthetic fertilizer pellets are produced by a chemical process in factories.... (as opposed to being produced by microbes in the soil eating the organic fertilizer and releasing the nutrients; which is how organic fertilizers work). This has also given synthetic (man-made) fertilizers the nick-name "chemical fertilizers". Some people misunderstand this to think that adding Vigoro/Scotts etc to their lawn is like pouring hazardous waste with toxic residues on the ground. This is NOT the case (although many organic lawn care sites have no problems "suggesting" this).

I agree with RonP.

"Chemical" fertilizers especially the N or nitrogen makes up 78% of the air that we breath. N is also a critical component of your as well as a chickens' body and N is a critical component of your and my DNA. N is isolated using Natural gas and the Atmosphere as feed stocks. The Phosphorus or Phosphates are strip mined from shallow fossil sea beds while Potash is the 7th most common chemical in the Earth's crust. Both are strip mined similar to the method used to produce Diatomaceous Earth.

"Organic" fertilizer on the other hand is extruded from the backsides of horses and bovines, scraped from municipal sewage sludge settling ponds, or else soiled commercial chicken house liter. It may or it may not be composted long enough to kill all the pathogens present. So with organic fertilizers one must lay one's money down and take your chances. Regardless of how much a flock of chickens love fresh horse and cow poop I think that there is less danger to a chickens' health if it eats a dab of triple 14 or Ammonium Nitrate than if it picks the yummy bits out of an organic fertilizer that only 6 months before was commercial chicken liter.

 

[glib]

You can compost leaves alone, it will take longer but the compost will be just as good. If you really want to add nitrogen, you can do what many other gardeners do and add your own urea. That is liquid and will not affect the chickens.

 

[yyz0yyz0]

No science to support my feelings but if it was me I would just use my chicken manure instead of the fertilizer and not worry about it.

I think that most chemical ferts are made from petroleum, not that it's the same as pouring motor oil in your compost but just the thought of it's source makes me leery. I compost to reduce my waste stream and also so I don't have to use fertilizers in my gardens, so adding ferts to the compost would seem counter intuitive to me.

 

[RonP]

Or just use more grass clippings.

Coffee shops will often give you their spent grounds, another easily obtained "green".

I once was collecting 2 5 gallon pails a week from a local Starbucks.

 

[Gibguy]

The initial intention of this thread was to determine if adding Granulated Fertilizer to Compost would be Harmful to the Chickens that feed on it.

To be honest I don’t think I have the answer yet as a “Yes” or “No”.

A googled search also seems that Dog Owners are as concerned as well since dogs would consume the grass that has the added granular fertilzer and there is even a Thread in 2009 from this Forum that seems to indicate it can be a hazard.

For this composting thread I would like it to stay more focused on convenience & the efficient production of worms & related insect generated in the compost, as it appears that a significant portion of edible food is being generated for my (3) chickens

While I realize that this Forum is focused towards Chickens and not Composting I am trying to obtain some answers. This appears to be a modified version of saying: “which comes first the chicken or the egg”. Except now we are substituting compost in place of egg, with the Compost being an integral part of getting to the egg.

In my area there are (2) Starbucks. The closest is about 3 miles away and the other about 10 miles away, both would have me driving in a direction I do not normally drive in. There are several Equestrian Farms even further from my home about 10 miles. Both of these from a practical standpoint are not convenient in my opinion of obtaining a reliable supply or for that matter transporting by vehicle.

The bulk of my compost is Oak Leaves & I estimate that comprises about 90 to 95 percent of the solid mass. Most of those leaves I receive in February & March so my actual availability of green material is pretty minimal. In my 10 years of composting I think I have only received (1) set of grass clippings from a neighbor.

My back yard completely shade with no grass with the following trees:

 Oak Trees
 Texas persimmon trees
 Loquat tree
 Hackberry

Two of these trees that the chickens particularly like to eat are the loquat & hackberry leaves and I intend to supplement their diet using those leaves, with the generated compost being applied around the above mentioned trees.

Since a Picture is worth a thousand Words here is an example of my System in (5) Photos:

CHICKENS FEEDING ON OPEN SMALL COMPOST BIN




Note: The Green Stock at top are Loquat Leaves

SMALL COMPOST BIN PREPOSITIONED




CHICKEN TRACTOR HAS BEEN MOVED TO CLEAR SPOT




Note: The small compost bin is behind the Chicken Tractor

CHICKEN FEEDING ON WORMS & INSECTS




THE WORMS PRODUCED FOR FEEDSTOCK




That’s it for now.

Gibguy