confirming breed and blood lines

[muddstopper]

I guess this might be a complicated question with a complicated answer, but here goes.

Hypothectical question. Supposed i purchased a fairly new strain of a particular breed of chickens. I raise all the birds from eggs. Hens start laying and roos start crowing. Now suppose all these bird meet the standard according to breed and I want to sell eggs and chicks from this flock. How do i document that these birds are indeed the strain they are claimed to be?

Also, in order to futher grow my small flock, how do I choose a roo to do this with. Knowing that any roo from the same strain is going to be very closely related to the birds I already own. Do I go outside my new strain and get another roo of the same breed, but different strain, for breeding purposes, and If I do, would that now mean that my birds are now not the original strain that I started with but a hybrid of 2 differnt strains. Or would I approach the original breeder and purchase another one of his roos and then continue to line breed the birds i already own. And what if I just decide to choose the best roo chicks from my original flock and use these to futher my breeding program. I would at the least be breeding half brothers and sisters or sons to mothers and fathers to daughters.

I currently have 3 roos and 9 hens. I am running one roo over 5 hens and one roo over 4 hens with one roo in reserve. (he has some hens but they are of a differnt breed and we are eating the eggs). My current plans are to raise two different sets of chicks from my current arrangements, then swap the roos around to cover different hens and then hatch those chicks. Then when all the chicks become of breeding age, to use my reserve rooster to cover those chicks. That roo would be a uncle to all those hens. Of course i will also keep a few roos to breed back over the opposite mothers. Somewhere along the line I would be mixing hens/roos from the second flocks to the third flock and also reusing the original daddy roos over their nieces and grandaughters, but not their own daughters.

Using this plan, would it be necessary to still bring in another roo from the original new strain or a roo of the same breed but of a different strain. and If so, how many generations would I need to grow before bringing in another roo. Of course, if the birds start looking wierd or not up to standard then I would cull and start over, but I would like to have a general ideal as how to move in the right direction. I have already culled way down to get the birds I am currently keeping.

 

[onthespot]

I keep two pens of CBM, a Bev Davis pen and a Wade Gene/Ron Presley pen. I don't mix them, and I do sell them by "lines" and people do seem to care.

I have young BLRW growing up. Some are pure Barber, some are Paul's/Foley cross, and three are from Katy. I do NOT plan on keeping all those lines separate. I will choose the best of the best and do the crosses I think will work best. I will run a few different pens of them, because of the Blue color genetics, and different strenghts and weaknesses that need complimentary partners. I will advertise them as "not hatchery stock" and if anyone asks where they came from, I will tell them the lines. I may end up with a "pure Barber" pen, in which I would sell them as "pure Barber" lines. I would not put a single hen from another line in that pen, and then call it pure Barber. Either everything in there is pure barber, or else it is "not hatchery stock" in my book.

That is just how I would do it. I do plan on buying those spiral metal bands to track the original stock and lines, to see how they breed and produce. It would take me a dozen pens just to breed out three lines of BLRW separate. I don't like 'em THAT much to take up as much as the whole rest of my birds put together.

 

[Lotsapaints]

You could use a spiral breeding plan to keep your strain pure. I think the hardest is knowing what to cull hopefully whoever you bought them from would be helpful with the strengths and weaknesses of the birds if close could help you cull....

 

[robin416]

Quote:
If the eggs came from another breeder and you hatched them they become yours. But if asked by anyone purchasing what the original line is you can say they came from such & such.

If eggs or birds are available to you now I would add the additional line at the beginning. You can not know how closely related the eggs are that you purchased unless the original breeder identified them for you. This way if issues begin to crop up because they are already closely related then it can be fixed quickly.

 

[muddstopper]

I didnt know if there was such a thing as breeding papers or not for Poultry and have often wondered how are you supposed to know if your birds are what the seller says they are or not.

I know who the father and mothers of my birds are, but since they where not marked on the eggs, and all eggs where in the same batch, I dont know which are or are not full brothers and sisters. Nothing I can do about that now.

Here are a few pics of the 3 roos I kept out of 21 total roos.

It hard to tell from the pic's, but side by side you cant hardly tell them apart

 

[robin416]

Quote:
The answer to your question is to know your breeder or use one that comes highly recommended by others in to serious breeding. I probably don't have to tell you that there are people out there who intentionally or unintentionally misrepresent what it is they have.

And you see why I said its good to bring in two lines if you are uncertain about the relationship.

When I started I brought in lines from several different people. That does not mean it worked out each and every time. Dealing in hidden/unknown genetics can cause some surprising results.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I like the top cockerel the best.

 

[onthespot]

I do too. The lower one looks less masculine, might just need more time to grow out.

 

[muddyhorse]

nice boy,

sometimes you have to trust humans, hard to do now but its all you have. birds don't have papers. often very knowledgeable people will look at your birds and say oh you must have gotten that from Mrs. Hooha or what ever. I recently bought a silkie flock and to seller told me they were brens, alan stanfords, deb steinbergs and bobbi portos. I trust her that is why I bought them.

 

[muddstopper]

Quote:
Actually, the bottom bird is 4 wks younger than the one in the top pic. Still, side by side the difference in age isnt that noticeable. Color, shape and size they look almost like twins.

I am considering all options right now as I am just starting into all this breeding business. My only thoughts about bringing in another line is that this would mean breeding out of the original strain. So which is better, to try and stay in the original strain which will have a small gene pool, or bring in other birds of the same breed but different strain to widen the gene pool. I have been told both ways. I think the wider the gene pool could also bring in some undersireable traits, especially since I would have to go on the word of whoever I buy from. Just because a bird looks correct doesnt mean there hasnt been a crow in the buttermilk somewhere in the family tree.

Anyways, it looks like this is going to be a long learning experience, anybody got any suggestions as to a good book to read?